Sea boats compared to river boats

[Dave_Knowles]

Hi,

On one of my other questions Solitare said that he felt my boat was more suited to river than sea. This confuses me as all the brochures etc. I have seen, seem to indicate it suitable for sea. The boat 23ft long and 8ft 6inch beam has a 130hp Volvo engine which takes it to around 19 knotts. This is much faster than many diesel enginges and certainly far too big an engine for a river.

It always seems ok when I have taken it out in the Solent.

What make a boat a sea craft and what makes a boat a river craft then and what sort of boat would I need to go off shore or maybe to the Channel Isles or France?

<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[lanason]

Well I would say these are two major things that are different between River and Sea boats and they are :- Hull / superstructure design and shape and Enigne arrangement. Let alone all the goodies like radar, and safety equipment.

River boats trend to be designed for max internal space and have a low freeboard to make getting on and off easier. Thus the hull shape is more, dare I say it, caravan like. Squarer with a flatter bottom, less draft, often more superstructre above the deck with big Caravan like windows. The bow shape does not move the water correctly and usually the hull is not deisgned for planning, being resticted to displacment speed. They may not have self draining cockpits and will not ride into or over waves. Any waves breaking over the bows will push the front windows into the cockpit !!

Engine wise and speed wise your boat is adequate for the sea - but I would guess is really designed as a river / ESTUARY crusier, and as such I would not be keen to go out sight land unless in company.

Well known around these parts but my Dad had a 30 foot Cleopatra with twin 106 hp 6cyl diesels. It had a Hard Roof big enuf for the inflatable (I know cus thats where we stored it) and a porthole window midships. I'll see if i can get some pictures sanned in.


<hr width=100% size=1>Adrian
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[Dave_Knowles]

Adrian,

The hull as you are probably aware a deep V semi displacement. Would this normally be for inshore then?

Out of interest I have a report from Practical Boat owner dated December 72 where they say that a 23 foot Fisherman ( the open version of mine) completed 3,804 miles from Essex across the North Sea to the Baltic almost to the artic circle, via Helsinki then back to it's home port of Heiligentafen on the North German coast and the owner said at no time was he worried about the ability of the boat to stand the weathger condiotions ownly his ability to stand the motion that can occur in a small power boat being used at speed off shore. The voyage took 30 days.

I am not sure where he got fuel as it seems very difficult even close to the coast around here to get petrol.


<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[hlb]

Well. There are boats designed for rivers. Hire boats come to mind and some quite large flat bottomed ferry boats. Sea boats idealy are the likes of the QE2, but not many of us can afford one of them, so after that it is a compromise. Taking a 23ft fisherman to the arctic circle is just stuped IMHO although it did apparently get there. I would stick to inshore waters and estuarys, with a good weather report.

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[lanason]

Don't know your boat but from the pictures and length (23 foot) hull shape look similar to mine. Superstructure looks very different.

My boat is described as deep V (which gives soft entry to head seas), but she is certainly no Ocean going craft !!!

I'm sure given luck and right sea conditions you can take any boat anywhere. Guess its down to experiance and risk assessment. If you hear some of the stories on here from the like of Hlb etc in his 35 footer with his experiance, water breaking over the flybridge etc I would think twice of going out in boats our size in rough conditions. Maybe I'm just a fair weather boater /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

Your right Petrol is a nightmare, I fill my boat up at Tesco's. I do have four 20 litres Jerry cans which I use when required - thus one visit to the station can get 80 litres. I also have a special Jerry can spout that fits over the outlet to stop spills.

I think our boats fall into the "Its a nice day lets have a bomb along the coast" category. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif


<hr width=100% size=1>Adrian
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[lanason]

Creepy - musta been thinking about when you were typing your post ...... our views match almost word for word !!!
ps QE2 is a fine boat.

<hr width=100% size=1>Adrian
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[Dave_Knowles]

Adrian,

Thanks for the info by the way I also fill up at Tesco and at the moment they are doing 5p off each litre if you spend over £50 in the store. I for one will be filling the tank right up.

<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[ccscott49]

Some people sail around the world in 18 foot boats, that doesn't make it safe or desireable.

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[Dave_Knowles]

Round the world is next year. This year it is the end of the Solent.

<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[LadyInBed]

I would say that the strength of the window fitting would be a consideration. You don't want a window to pop on a hard landing!

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[ccscott49]

Has been done in a small motorboat, but that was an ex RNLI watson 46 footer, Daid Scott-Cowper I think.

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[BarryH]

He's going round the world at the moment isn't he. Seem to remember reading that he had a boat built out of ali with a recon Gardiner lump in it. Think it was in one on the mags. Polar Bound I think the boats called.

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[Chris771]

Another of the characteristics I normally use to define a riverboat is having forward facing windows in a forecabin, so that a sea coming over the bow has the potential to stove in the windows and rapidly fill the boat with water.

Most seagoing boats have windows/ports along the line of the hull where they are not likely to damaged by large masses of water. Forward facing cockpit windows are normally considerably above water level and fairly well aft.

Chris

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[kingfisher]

water is water

Any boat is suitable for going out to sea, it is just limited by weather conditions. You can potter with a dingy 12 Mi off shore in a dead calm.

Again, precautions need to be taken: having a dead engine, with teh river edge 50 m away is a problem. Having a dead engine 5 Mi out is a life threatening situation.

So know what conditions your boat is suited for, not the waters.

<hr width=100% size=1>Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

Re: water is water

The easiest way to tell the difference between a sea boat and a river boat is that the sea boat will either have a big pole sticking out of the deck or alternatively, if it doesn't have a pole it will have "Nelson" written on it somewhere!

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[Dave_Knowles]

Re: Richard Yates

Hi Richard,

I got your PMl and tried to reply but your server won't accept emails for some reason. If you read this please let me know how I can contact you.

<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[martynwhiteley]

Having once been caught well upstream in the Humber in quite a severe 'Wind against Tide' situation (in my last boat - Princess 25) I can admit to have been pretty scared. In fact a friend following in his Pilgrim 25 has never ventured into tidal waters since the event about 15 months ago.

The Humber is known to be notorius for such conditions, and the complex sand bank shifting patterns result in a very unpredictable 'boiling' effect that makes it impossible to keep a straight course in a small boat, and you inevitabley end up broadside on more often than you'd like.

Our journey continued up the Trent, and downstream of the M180 bridge, the conditions weren't much better, although they were predictable and in one direction.

I've also experienced Loch Ness in a hire P30DS when it was 'great fun' to say the least.

The P25's old design means it has a low freeboard and large glass windows, yet it is considered by many as having 'good sea-keeping qualities'.

In summary, I think you can experience conditions on 'Rivers', as worse as many 'Coastal' boaters will find, and there is perhaps a tendancy to be more complacent on a river, regarding reading forecasts, and safety equipment etc.

Has anyone else had any 'scary' experiences on so called sheltered waters (and not just because the beer had run out /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif ).

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue> Real boaters do it on the Humber </font color=blue>

 

[byron]

Re: water is water

As someone who has driven many a Nelson and derivatives believe me they ain't the best thing since sliced bread. They bang like buggery and crash like the 1812 Overture. The reason the are heavily favoured by 'authority' is because they are built to take a pounding, they are the 'Landrovers' of the sea. In fact in rough weather one will get a far better ride in a deep vee'd hull. I have to agree with your 'pole' comment though.

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[muchy_]

As for hairy moments on inland waters......
I once crossed Breydon water at Great Yarmouth in a force 8 directly against a solstice tide..... WOW, the head on waves were higher than the boat but even though she is an ex-hire boat (allbeit with a Seamaster 30 hull) she handled it perfectly and at no time did she feel near the limit. I would certainly trust her (if not myself) in worse seas than that. And she is deemed a "river boat".

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