Sea Anchor

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emnick

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I am hoping to get away in 2010 and need to know if most people carry a drogue or sea anchor. I dont think its listed in the ARC required kit, any thoughts on the series drogue?. Anybody used this sort of kit in anger?
Thanks again for any help.
 
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Anybody used this sort of kit in anger?

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Of course they have! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Google "Jordan Series Drogue" for lots of info, accounts and links to video of them in action

I am building one at the moment, mainly because I know my hull much prefers a drogue to a sea anchor off the bow (a Warrior 35 owner was involved in research for drogues and sea anchors). Reading the research and technical stuff by Jordan also indicates that nearly every boat would ride much more comfortably and safely with a drogue, since hulls are designed to move forwards not backwards. There is no veering and snatching, so loads are significantly less.

Lets hope I never have to tell you how it performed /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Here we go, this is a BIG topic.
The great thing is that most sailors (including myself) have fairly clear ideas about how they would use a drogue but (fortunately) have never had to put it to the test..
My own pennyworth is that in fairly severe conditions, if you are running before the wind you may need a drogue to slow down. In really severe conditions you may need the drogue off the bow to stabilize the yacht, Monos and cats behave differently.
My own take on the size of the drogue is that it should be determined by the size of your warps and cleats. For my 43ft boat the recommendation is a 6ft diameter sea anchor and 18mm warps . Since I don't carry those I have broken the area down into two smaller drogues which I can deploy with the mooring ropes.
I hear good reports for the series drogue but its a mighty thing to stow with no other use. The Parasail is expensive and I feel is best suited for deployment at the bow of catamarans--but hey------what do I know!!!!!
Should be an interesting thread!!!!!
 
A sea-anchor (strictly speaking) is a big thing launched from the bows of a boat for riding out storm-force winds.

Those that have survived the experience of using them appear to swear by them.

Many extremely experienced sailors frown on them, due to the stresses on rudders and the difficulty of recovery in the 3rd stage of a storm (when the wind is dying and wave-action, no longer suppressed by force of wind, becomes more dangerous).

I suspect you are referring to a drogue, something in common use by RNLI crews towing casualty vessels.

I doubt anyone who has used them doubts their efficiency. The series drogue is probably the easiest to launch and recover, and yes I've used them both as towee and as tower.

They can be used as a means of slowing down a vessel running downwind in storm conditions to avoid pitchpoling by surfing down the face of a wave into the back of another. No I haven't used one for that, and unless you are intending to circumnavigate, using the Southern Ocean or to make regular trans-oceanic voyages, I doubt you'll ever have occasion to use them.
 
Here we go..(you have my permission to laugh.. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) I started experimenting with one of those rubble or sand bags used to clear sites or deliver bulk sand. I used a medium size bag, shackled a length of chain with a swivel onto the bag handles and threw it over the stern on 60 metres of 18mm octoplait.

This was off Newhaven in fine weather about force 3. My boat was a 35 foot steel gaff cutter. The bag towed astern just below the surface but failed to open, at times coming to the surface and simply spinning on the swivel.

I cut a hole in the bottom of the bag (Drew round a bucket as a guide) roped round the hole with a length of old polyprop to reinforce the edge and shackled a small dingy anchor, about 5 kilos, onto the chain where it joined the 18 mm warp.

Under full sail, (Jib, Main and tops'l) I chucked the bag over the stern again. The bag immediately sank, opened out and the warp lifted clear of the water. I had the wind astern but it momentarily practically stopped the boat! Gradually way came on again but the effect was surprising until the roping round the hole failed ( I'd just tacked it with sail twine) the hole split and the bag collapsed, and we were sailing again..

All this came about because the previous year I had been caught North-West of Finisterre in an horrendous gale and I had run for one and a half days towing 4 warps, which slowed her down enough to stop her surfing. 12 tons and all steel singlehanded, scared the living daylights out of me.

I'm now in the process of making Mark 3, a half yard bag from Jewsons.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif (different boat)
Just thought I'd post this as I read a lot about drogues , sea anchors etc: but never met anyone who's used one. And I can't really afford a few hundred quid for something that (hopefully) will be stowed and never used..
 
hey highandry. how was your experience with trailing warps. I was going to take a sea anchor with me hoping that 2 x 200 feet of 16mm line should do the job.
As you're experimenting with other methods, did you not find it satisfactory?
 
Ah! ha! Similar thoughts eh Damo? Mark 3 will have a properly roped hole in the bottom and two pieces of 2"x 2" cut to the correct length with a nut and bolt pivot through the middle to open as a "cross" in the mouth of the bag to assist with keeping it open. Not going to bother with a tripping line and I've captured a proper weight off a small crane wire to replace the dinghy anchor.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
MM, I confess to flapping a bit at the time. She ran too fast down a sea and slammed into the one ahead. I thought I'd hit something like a floating container!! I paid out three warps from one quarter and one from the other (that's just the way they were stowed in the lockers) Just the soft spliced eyes in the ends but it definitely slowed her down safely, at least I stopped surfing, I was carrying a tiny storm jib but was frightened to take it in as it was helping her track downwind.

I wouldn't hesitate to stream warps again, it certainly worked with her long keel but thought "belt and braces" a drogue (especially a cheap but well made one.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) would not be a bad thing and take up little locker space. I like the idea of the Jordan Drogue but to ferry a hundred metres or so of 'one-use' rope about seems a bit much. My warps were 18 mm octoplait and 60 metres approx as I was bound for the Greek Islands and expected to anchor off with long stern lines ashore. When I streamed them I just kept enough inboard to turn them up and allow me to get the end to a cockpit winch for hauling them back onboard. I reckon your longer lines will be better as they will give you the choice of streaming them in a bight as some people prefer. My warps were too short for that, plus the fact I was flapping so just made the ends fast and dumped the lot over the stern.. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
i think you meant para-anchor?

I have one of these and having played with it in F6 3metres, i would be pretty leery of using it "in anger". The flippin pardeys wax lyrical bout it, but they rig it to one side of the bow of a relatively small (35foot?) boat and mentional shackles etc.

Once you are in decent solid 40knots in a bigger boat, i dread to think what would happen. Certainly a few people have had a bad time rigging the thing over the bow - the forces made the 1inch 200m line like piano wire (think it twanged like a B flat...)

Running downwind seems easier to "rig". But then as pardeys also say, that assumes there's enough sea.

Overall, i agree with Charles - hugely unlikely you need these survival things unless intentionally trying to make a known-stormy passage. I have drogue and tyre and long lines that should slow us down going downwind.

Interesting how someone used them in Greek waters - generally the med seen as oh so safe whereas as the big oceans not so. In truth, the high frequency med waves much nastier than lower frequency ocean stuff - it's the holes that get you. Altho in the extreme, the actual breaking really big wave a bit of a downer up the stern especially if one has er slowed the boat down....
 
That was the idea highanddry. Trailing with a bight. I did the ISAF offshore safety a few weekends ago and the chap running was very experienced. Singlehanded a 32 footer down to Cape Horn etc...Anyways, he wasn't giving too much personal opinion but he gave off the impression that a dedicated sea drogue vs warps was a matter of personal opinion.
 
Thanks tcm I do indeed mean a para-anchor not a parasail .
While I'm here I would point out that it is often said that the attachment of ....whatever ...to the bow "makes the boat point into the waves as it was intended".

But isn't this rubbish as the boat is now moving backwards and placing tremendous forces on the stern gear..------.as was never intended!!!
 
I was North West of Finisterre TCM, bound for the Med and ultimately the Greek Islands. I was over an area called the Melville Knoll and Haddock Bank in Met area 'Sole' in less than 150 metres of water. Just thought I'd mention that for anyone else going that way..very very confused and tumbling seas, nice breeze to howling in about 2 hours!! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I agree with your comments on the stresses from a big sea or Para anchor and certainly for me single handed, that rig is not an option.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I am hoping to get away in 2010 and need to know if most people carry a drogue or sea anchor. I dont think its listed in the ARC required kit, any thoughts on the series drogue?. Anybody used this sort of kit in anger?
Thanks again for any help.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am probably like a number of people here, I have the equipment but luckily haven't had the need to use it. Similar to you and after reading numerous accounts of their use I decided I needed a Parachute anchor for the delivery trip from South Africa. I read every bit of info and spoke to the big two manufacturers in Aus about the Pros and Cons of each system. I now have an 18ft Para-Anchor with 100m of 25mm rode and a bridal of 20m each plus all the shackels etc for attachment. Its a well made piece of kit but I have one serious problem, not with the anchor but attachment points on my boat. The problem is that you cannot just attach these things to normal cleats as they just aren't built for the sort of loads you are talking about and I definately shouldn't attach it to the forward cross beam on my cat as it would just rip it right off together with the mast etc. We were meant to have some special attachment points fitted in Cape Town but due to other problems we didn't get time so I now have a very expensive bit of kit that I can't use even if I wanted to!!
Take a look at this site http://www.maxingout.com/storm_management.htm Dave has completed a circumnavigation but at the bottom of this page you will see the attachment points that I was due to have made but never did. I will shortly be fitting some!!
I just wanted to point out that its not really just a case of buying an off the self solution, there is a lot more to it.
 
Exactly TCM, you're just cutting £20+ of bag and shackles adrift if that is what is dictated by conditions, and I appreciate that safety and not cost is the over riding factor, but the temptation to try and get an expensive rig back on board I suspect would be too much for a tightwad like me, probably lose a couple of fingers as well.. I just feel reluctant to hold the boat up into the weather under those conditions anyway, and all the time I have searoom I'd choose to run.
I like the idea of a tyre, could always rope it round and use it as a fender for lying against rough quaysides at other times.
Mmm! got me thinking now.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
<<Altho in the extreme, the actual breaking really big wave a bit of a downer up the stern especially if one has er slowed the boat down....>>

Had that happen to me coming into Poole during the Jubilee gales (and that wasn't survival conditions but shallowing water tripping the big ones.

Cockpit drains are inadequate, but give a woman a big enough fright and big enough bucket and it's amazing how many tons of water she can move in an incredibly short time.

She'll only come sailing now in gin-and-tonic weather (ie it won't spill if she puts it down), though I did take her round 18 islands and 430 miles in 4 weeks around Croatia in 2007.
 
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I like the tyre option (and have a spare old one) and the builders bag option too - cos if it goes wrong you can just abandon the thing....

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Wish you wouldn't, Just round Agdé, broke mast, tramontane starts and I get one of those round the prop.

53' for la Garde CROSS to answer my PanPan, by which time I'd found another method of making progress, tied up on the fuel pontoon at port Argéles with very brown trousers 2 hrs later.
 
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