Scrubbing to be banned?

[MikeBz]

I've been told that as of next year we won't be allowed to scrub our boats any more. The only way to clean your bottom will be to be hoisted & cleaned in a contained area where the waste will be collected. Is this really true? It came from a good source who should know since he will have to police it.

Seems totally bonkers to me. So, it's OK to have my boat sitting in the water all year with toxic (ish) stuff on it, but not OK to clean the weed & muck off it. Surely they'll have to ban ablative anti-foulings? Have the rule-makers considered the environmental impact of all the extra fuel that will be used due to people not scrubbing the weed off the bottom of their boats? No, I thought not.

I'm not against protecting the environment, but I am against legislation which on balance causes more problems than it solve.

Mike

 

[maxi]

Well, if it's to be anything like the TBT ban, which was for the benefit of fish stocks and the dog whelks, the local fishermen not only carried on using TBT, but their empty or part empty TBT cans went straight into the river, as did their antifouling brushes !.

In the meantime, vast tankers, container ships, liners et al, all whizz up and down the Solent at speeds where abaltion does take place, over their thousands of square feet of TBT antifouling.

By all means preserve the environment, I am all for it, but lets have sensible laws that affect everyone equally. Don't just pick on the easy targets to be seen to be doing something.

Britain today has too much law, and too little justice.

 

[KenMcCulloch]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been told that as of next year we won't be allowed to scrub our boats any more.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've also been told that people have been abducted by aliens but that doesn't make it true. This sounds like a Daily Mail - type 'EU to ban curved bananas' story to me.

 

[William_H]

Here on the Swan River West Oz many yacht clubs and marinas have a slip way ie a cradle on rails to haul up boats for clean and repaint.
The clubs are under notice that the mess from cleaning and scraping will have to be disposed of properly and not just washed back into the river. Most clubs have built containment systems. Ours ... not yet.

I must say that the mess going intot he river looks bad and I for one am not really against the new rules.

We don't have the luxury of drying out (no large tide change) so the only way to scrub is by haul out or in the water. I do mine in water mostly. I am not sure how one big messy clean compares to many minor scrubs but so far no one has noticed my in water cleaning.

So I don't know if it is right or not but our water ways need to be protected so don't be surprised if restrictions are brought in.
olewill

 

[MikeBz]

[ QUOTE ]
I've also been told that people have been abducted by aliens but that doesn't make it true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Damn, I've always believed everything I hear /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I heard it secondhand, the original source was a knowledgeable harbourmaster who is not looking forward to trying to enforce it. It sounds so daft that I was sceptical, hence asking here if anyone else has heard of it. I sincerely hope that someone has got the wrong end of the stick.

Mike

 

[Anonymous]

If true, there will probably be controlled areas in which it will be prohibited. E.g we might see local byelaws in places such as the River Hamble, Truro River, Carrick Roads, Portsmouth Harbour, Chichester and Emsworth Harbours, etc.

For many people, legs will be an answer outside controlled areas.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

So HMG has friends and donors in the boatyard and crane strop supply industry I guess. Only logical reason I would see in this sort of drivel, if its true.

 

[nyx2k]

as a car valeter i'm supposed to collect all the run off water from the job and clean and recycle it as i can be fined upto 2000 for letting it go down the drain at the job site and also if i take home the water and dispose in my drains.
im suposed to buy what looks like an inflatable pool which i drive the car into and then inflate and collect the water by a pump and take home and filter.

 

[Anonymous]

Purely out of interest, do the define what they mean by 'filter' - is there approved apparatus, a published filtration standard, etc.?

 

[nyx2k]

good question. ive never looked into it as the pool and pump were around 1000 and there no way i'm going to be the first to buy one whilst everyone else gets away with it but i'll get the details and see if they mean filter solids or filter all chemicals out as well. the filtering could be very expensive and very time consuming.

i do clean a good amount of boats aswell and as long as i dont make loads of mess the yard owners have never complained.

 

[exfinnsailor]

Just do what we always do get up in the DARK get the boat ready for the tide just add scrub bottom to list of jobs the crew has to do before we cast off .. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif and before anyone says anything I am the crew .. Sometimes ... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[saltydognl]

Hi,
Just to worry you even more it is being bandied around that a lot of harbours with scrubbubg posts are being closed due to lack of use. Is this a two edged sword here with the scrubbing ban?
We really must start to stand up to these loutish bullies that want to ban everything that others enjoy cos the're jealous of our enjoyment of a healthy sport.

Our magazines really should start to stand up on the soapbox and beat some of these louts publicly and shame them for their useless diatribe, then maybe when they have enough of the red face they will give up or go somewhere else.

LONG LIVE SAILING

 

[tillergirl]

How can anyone claim that anti-fouling damages the environment. I've just had my third scrub of the season! It seems to be a positive aid to growth!!!!

 

[rhumlady]

I first heard of this about three years ago when the marina staff told me that they would have to build an area that could be used to collect the stuff then they would hand it back to the owner to dispose of. This has been repeated to me at several other sites over the following years.

 

[Anonymous]

If you look at what's left after pressure-washing, you will see lots of antifoul as well as vegetable material that has been growing on it. If the antifoul was poisonous then this waste will be, too. Otherwise at worst it is plain messy but, as you suggest, not a problem for the environment.

So folks, is modern antifoul of the sort we are allowed to buy from chandlers and use on yachts, poisonous to the environment?

 

[Pasarell]

TBT has been banned on all shipping for several years now - 2004 I think. In practice most shipping companies switched to copper based antifoulings in the 90's. Occasionally you see a can of TBT at boat jumbles still but it's a tiny amount now. TBT built up in areas used by yachts as their products eroded far more quickly than those used on big ships and there are still high concentrations in the silt where large numbers of yachts berth 20 years after the ban.
Antifoulings on commercial vessels erode / ablate at much slower rates than yachts because they are moving most of the time. In open waters the biocides are diluted to very low concentrations by the volume of water. Yacht antifoulings have to put biocides out even when stationary hence the build up in silt under marinas.

 

[Gunfleet]

[ QUOTE ]

Antifoulings on commercial vessels erode / ablate at much slower rates than yachts because they are moving most of the time..

[/ QUOTE ] Sounds like magic. Why?

 

[Pasarell]

[ QUOTE ]
If you look at what's left after pressure-washing, you will see lots of antifoul as well as vegetable material that has been growing on it. If the antifoul was poisonous then this waste will be, too. Otherwise at worst it is plain messy but, as you suggest, not a problem for the environment.

So folks, is modern antifoul of the sort we are allowed to buy from chandlers and use on yachts, poisonous to the environment?

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely poisonous!
It is made up of a combination of soluble paint resins, cuprous oxide and a cocktail of organic biocides. Just because it wasn't strong enough to prevent all the fouling on your boat doesn't mean it's harmless.
One of the main biocides used for many years, Diuron, was banned earlier this year. It's pretty unpleasant stuff and it won't be there working for you next year - unless you buy old tins next spring.

 

[Pasarell]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Antifoulings on commercial vessels erode / ablate at much slower rates than yachts because they are moving most of the time..

[/ QUOTE ] Sounds like magic. Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most yachts sit at rest in confined waters most of the time. The antifouling is designed to dissolve into the surrounding water with little or no movement of that water. When the yacht is actually moving (a very small percentage of the time usually) the antifouling dissolves at a much faster rate.

Ships spend the vast majority of their time moving, often at 15 knots or more. Their antifoulings are designed to hardly dissolve at all when stationary and start working when the ship is moving. Antifoulings are designed around the operational patterns of different kinds of ship. A container ship operating from USA to Europe at a steady 25kn with only short breaks in port will have a much slower eroding antifouling than a coastal trading ship operating at 12kn with frequent stops in port.

 

[Anonymous]

You sound as though you know what you're talking about on this subject which is always a pleasure and a bonus /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The question whether scrubbing docks should be disallowed or forced (somehow) to contain the waste should depend on how large the problem is. I suspect that most modern yachtsmen like to keep their boats in a marina and have them pressure washed by the yard, where it is pretty easy to have a sump and environmental protection.

There are still a lot of impecunious yachtsmen and those who like to scrub down themselves because a) they can b) it saves a few bob and c) it gives them a chance to examine the hull more intimately than they otherwise would if presented with a fait accompli by the yard. If (and I mean 'if') this is a fairly small problem and the numbers wishing to do it are falling annually, then why ban it, especially since the biocides are becoming more environmentally friendly year by year?