Sailing School again

[Mr Cassandra]

Hi
When to Conwy for the last two days . Meet some people doing Day Skipper course .
They Joined the boat 1800hrs Fri Had a safty briefing, Then went to pub, following morning fueled the yacht at 11 15 left marina and motorsailed up to the Meni bridge went to the Liverpool arms pub in the evening Left there sunday morning and sailed back to the Marina for 11 00hrs to clean boat All had Certs .HOW much could they have learnt? Cheers bobt

Bob T

 

[Jeremy_W]

Next to nothing

The poor level of tuition and short hours at sea offered by one the schools in that area is a common complaint here. Day Skipper trainees should have left at 2315 on Friday for a night pilotage exercise, or at least to log up night hours.

The only possible defence is if they used the Liverpool Arms pontoon for mooring and slow speed manoeuvring practice up-tide and down-tide. With the usual lack of grunt in "raggie" [is that the term?] boats that's pretty tricky when the water is really churning under the bridges.

But that's really clutching at straws trying to defend the school in question (whcih you haven't named). I'd have demanded a refund for short measures. DS is hard enough work as a five day course sailing dawn to past dusk every day with passage planning and shapes and sounds tests every night.

 

[Guest]

I began a thread in April about poor sailing schools after a very poor weekend in Conwy when my pal and I had a bad weekend.
I have not looked at this Forum for some time but Im amazed the debate continues.
I shouldnt be. I have indeed demanded a refund but this has twice been refused. I have sought the help of the RYA and the answer was quite staggeringly inept.....in essence their investigation appears to have consisted of phoning the other students on the boat and told me that because they both said they were happy (both total novices by the way) that we should be too.
I spoke to Jeremy Stevens at the RYA and asked him, should I expect to be able to shower and use a marina toilet for my money ? No was the answer. Should I be asked to climb across the stern of a huge, slippery Survey Ship in the rain with no life-jacket on to make my way to the Pub toilet as directed by the skipper ? Yes.

God forbid that I should ever approach such a weekend with my wife and/or daughters.

I didnt by this time bother to ask whether I should expect two full days sailing rather than motoring/expect to be fed/expect the boat to have water for the duration of the second night on board etc etc as these RYA people had made up their mind that my complaint is frivolous.

My complant is becoming a campaign.

Next stop the Wolverhampton Crown Court and the Summons procedure, and a letter to the top man at the RYA.

All the correspondance will eventually be available on a website.

Cheers.

Tarquin.

 

[poter]

I can not believe that it was their first and only weekend.

The RYA log book states for Practical courses that ' The minimum duration for any course is 5 days, or over 3 weekends'
Also ' The yacht should sail a minimum of 100 miles'

Perhaps they were on their last weekend?????

There is a requirment for Victualling maybe it was an internal exercise.

Poter

 

[Jeremy_W]

"I spoke to Jeremy Stevens at the RYA and asked him, should I expect to be able to shower and use a marina toilet for my money ? No was the answer. Should I be asked to climb across the stern of a huge, slippery Survey Ship in the rain with no life-jacket on to make my way to the Pub toilet as directed by the skipper ? Yes."

I'm with the RYA on this: If a daily marina shower and a berth next to the harbour wall become "rights" on RYA courses then the courses will be the poorer for it. Yachting schools in more rugged parts of the country - the Hebrides especially - will be banned. If you want to learn marina-hopping go to the Solent. Crossing the Survey Ship at Menai Bridge [from a Sigma 38?] isn't really a big deal. Rafting up alongside other vessels is an integral part of sailing.

"I didnt by this time bother to ask whether I should expect two full days sailing rather than motoring/expect to be fed/expect the boat to have water for the duration of the second night on board etc etc as these RYA people had made up their mind that my complaint is frivolous."

These are serious complaints: Do bother to ask them! If you had led with these complaints, rather than the argument about showers, they should definitely have taken you seriously!

 

[Mr Cassandra]

You are right it was their third week . They did not have a lot to say about the other two weekends First week weather to bad to go out of the river, F5. Used the time mooring and changing sails.Second weekend it seamed as if they did the same as the last Although they were promised that they would be taken through the swelies.there was not time ,so they tied up to the survy ship in the dark ,because of mid summer ,only got two hours of night sailing in .
Years ago I did the same as this with this school ,because I did not belive my self competent , or satified .booked the same course,With Southern sailing . What a difference that was ! Thats why I was so interested ,to know if things had changed at this school. The answer regretfully NO Cheers bob t

Bob T

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Jeremy I agree with what you say , but their is something wrong with this school Hard to say ,just a feeling of, that will do,! it seem as if all they want is the money and they will hand over the cert .Standards ImHO very low Cheers bob t

Bob T

 

[poter]

So how did they get their 100 mile requirment?

I did my Day Skip course with Dart Sailing ... Excellent, looking forward to my next.
But I am sure that a lot depends on the instructor, witness your comment in not going out of the river in a F5........

So what value an RYA course?

Poter.

 

[Guest]

Re: Next to nothing

Knowing the school in question i would make the following comments.They are not in defence of what i believe was a good school...WAS.

They now attract alot of novice's who think pub crawling is part of the course
Tidal resrictoins in the area and Conwy Marina need to be worked well to maximise sailing time,this takes time and unpopular (with novice's) early/late starts
The quality and experience of the skippers is on the whole poor but varies year to year.
Some(all?) boats used are chartered and the dont want to risk damaging them due to cost/loss of use/lost income if out of commission

A friend was sending his daughter on a day skipper and asked advice,i suggested Plas Menia if she waneted to sail the other for a holiday!!
V.poor when you think its RYA endorsed.

 

[alant]

Are you serious about unable to go out of river because of a F5? Hardly 'bad' weather, even for complete beginners surely.

 

[Colin64]

I cannot believe the crap I am reading, I have just spent every weekend and then a five day course at Conwy with my wife, all i can say is it was superb, the quality and personalities of all involved were excellent from the school staff to all three skippers involved, no we did not shower every day and had to fill the water tanks, but hey you spoilt brats never been camping before?

Every day was an early start finally having a pint about 10.30pm in the pub, that to me is sail training, we were pushed very hard by all the skippers and expected to perform beyond our current capabilities in order to progress.

We climbed over the research vessel at Menai and please guys get your spelling of my town names correct!! my wife had no problem and she is 5ft 4ins, Blonde and loves to wear spice shoes!!

I have learn't so much about sailing and equally importantly about getting on with people, mucking in and getting on with things, we met over 16 other people during our time all of whom were delighted with the course, boats and facilities on offer, we have kept in touch with many of them.

Not all the boats are charter, in fact the Sigma 38 and Victoria 34 are school owned and kept in excellent order.

I have already subscribed to additional clasroom cpourses in Conwy this winter and regulary share a beer with the staff at the local, I have new freinds, a new hobby I can share with my wife and am definately competent!!

These forums often attract negative comments, I will certainly be monitoring those and happily posting a more positive outlook on life!!

 

[sailbadthesinner]

Re: Point of the boards

I understand you wishing to defend them but that is the point of these boards
everyone gives their own experience and view point. It is up to us to interpret whther they have a valid complaint or not based on the info they give. Admittedly some turn into rants but that is life.
I have been tempted to go with conwy as i have a place on anglesey and would like to get to know that side of the coast better. I am glad someone has stepped in to show they are not all bad. If you ever need crew let me know

...It was like that when i found it!

 

[Jeremy_W]

"...no we did not shower every day and had to fill the water tanks, but hey you spoilt brats never been camping before? We climbed over the research vessel at Menai..."

My points (below) exactly. Glad you had an exhausting, exacting time - exactly what Day Skipper should be.