Sailing retro low tech - legal risk?

Buck Turgidson said:
Do you ever throw anything away? ??
Your 777 is old school these days. My A220 puts it to shame! And similarly, I have all the information you have on one cockpit instrument and an iPad ? But I do have a classic magnetic compass for steering and a sextant for fun ???
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Well I’m 19 years retired now, I guess the 777 like me is long in the tooth. I did prefer the yoke to a sidestick. The Air France ex Rio airbus would never have crashed if they’d had a yoke. Yes I too can display everything on one instrument, there’s one down below angled so I can read it from the heads while the boat is on autopilot ?
 
As someone who sails without a 12v system and no gadgets other than avionics on my phone (and a paper chart but no table to put it on), would I be negligent because I haven’t fitted a battery, solar panels etc etc? I’ve sailed around Mull and some of the Outer Hebrides. Providing I don’t infringe the RCD I don’t feel the threat of negligence.
There is an interesting parallel in aviation known as the “Children of the Magenta Line” where younger pilots al have only ever flown using a Flight Management System (fancy GPS + Radio Aid +inertia depending on aircraft) and so only ever look at the magenta line on the display which shows your planned route. It becomes so easy to fly without looking out of the window.
I think there are two ways of using a plotter, create a route and sail looking at the screen, or generate a heading and follow the compass and watching where you heading. The plotteris Then used more like you use a paper chart.
At the end of the day it’s your boat, your rules, your time and your choice on how you make your fun
 
I regularly sail old school with the plotter screen off, partly to save power but mostly because I enjoy navigation. And mostly in unfamiliar waters.

My partner finds this unnerving so she turns it on every now and then while I'm not looking ?.

Re the legal issue; when our outdoor activities club was debating insurance cover we found that the problem wasn't whether we would be in the legal right, but the costs of defending/proving that rightness. But I suspect that the probability of you being sued would be the same whether you had a plotter or not.

In other sports there is usually a statement of the risks involved and that people should only participate if they accept these risks. However, I know people still try to sue despite this!

Anyone aware of any close precedent?
 
boomerangben said:
There is an interesting parallel in aviation known as the “Children of the Magenta Line” where younger pilots al have only ever flown using a Flight Management System (fancy GPS + Radio Aid +inertia depending on aircraft) and so only ever look at the magenta line on the display which shows your planned route. It becomes so easy to fly without looking out of the window.
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My ex-RAF dad used to fly all sorts of small planes including his own homebuilt which had a VW beetle engine. No tech at all other than basic instruments. He spent most of the time looking for landing places for when the engine might somewhat likely fail. He told me he once landed at Stanstead without a radio, shooting a flare out of the window to indicate his intention. Was a while ago but still I guess if its not obligatory to have all the latest gadgets in flying then very unlikely would be in sailing
 
Always an odd discussion every time this comes up. How far to take it, remove the ships clock? Compass? The manacles are littered with ships that were sure they were somewhere else. Using GPS to plot on a paper chart doesn’t make you any less of a sailor or navigator
 
Buck Turgidson said:
Do you ever throw anything away? ??
Your 777 is old school these days. My A220 puts it to shame! And similarly, I have all the information you have on one cockpit instrument and an iPad ? But I do have a classic magnetic compass for steering and a sextant for fun ???
Click to expand...
Aren’t airbus pilot merely there to keep the passengers happy while the plane flies itself? ??
 
Athomson said:
My ex-RAF dad used to fly all sorts of small planes including his own homebuilt which had a VW beetle engine. No tech at all other than basic instruments. He spent most of the time looking for landing places for when the engine might somewhat likely fail. He told me he once landed at Stanstead without a radio, shooting a flare out of the window to indicate his intention. Was a while ago but still I guess if its not obligatory to have all the latest gadgets in flying then very unlikely would be in sailing
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I think for vfr flight you only need a compass, watch, chart, altimeter and airspeed indicator. No radio, transponder in fact no electronics at all. Having said that Stanstead last time I tried were reluctant to let anyone in their airspace that wasn’t commercial, radio or not
 
The IRPCS rule 5 requires a lookout to kept by all means appropriate to the prevailing conditions, and this has resulted in court cases when working radar equipment was available but not used.

However, there is no such requirement regarding navigation equipment aboard UK registered non-commercial vessels. Its up to the owner/skipper to decide what they need.

Faced with equipping a new (to me) boat for a single handed passage from Plymouth to Orkney and a limited budget I ignored the faulty wind instruments, bought a simple hand held GPS that could run off the boat's batteries and took my paper charts + pilot book. I also fitted a radar (pre AIS days) as this could be used for collision avoidance, watchkeeping with guard rings, and navigation along with a wind turbine plus new batteries to keep it running.

We are all free to make our own choices, but the bottom line is to keep crew and vessel safe.
 
boomerangben said:
I think for vfr flight you only need a compass, watch, chart, altimeter and airspeed indicator. No radio, transponder in fact no electronics at all. Having said that Stanstead last time I tried were reluctant to let anyone in their airspace that wasn’t commercial, radio or not
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He probably didn't tell them he was coming. Just waggle the wings a bit and shoot a flare, they'll clear the runway for you ?
 
srm said:
The IRPCS rule 5 requires a lookout to kept by all means appropriate to the prevailing conditions, and this has resulted in court cases when working radar equipment was available but not used.

However, there is no such requirement regarding navigation equipment aboard UK registered non-commercial vessels. Its up to the owner/skipper to decide what they need.
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Interesting and what I expected hence thread. I can imagine it creeps gradually from requirement in commercial to an expectation in the non-commercial world, but not here yet.

Faced with equipping a new (to me) boat for a single handed passage from Plymouth to Orkney and a limited budget I ignored the faulty wind instruments, bought a simple hand held GPS that could run off the boat's batteries and took my paper charts + pilot book. I also fitted a radar (pre AIS days) as this could be used for collision avoidance, watchkeeping with guard rings, and navigation along with a wind turbine plus new batteries to keep it running.
Click to expand...
Yes the powering it all issue! I nearly pulled the trigger on a boat a few months ago. Expensively equipped like it had an owner who'd rather spend money than go sailing. The natural progression from installing 32" widescreen chart plotter with 3d side scan depth and fishfinder was half the locker space full of heavy batteries and the lines of the boat ruined with an arch at the back to mount the solar panel array. Looked like a boy racer had put a wing on the back of a classic car. I could have sold all that for most of the asking price of the boat but it was too far for the time of year.
 
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