doug748
Well-Known Member
Here is another striking example in a different type:
All were safe.
All were safe.
Sailboat capsized into pier
- Thread starter Andrew E
- Start date
Arcady
Well-Known Member
Precisely so. Of course it might have dragged, but it was surely worth trying??
snooks
Well-Known Member
I just did a bit of research...You know google, for a few minutes...the boat was a Martin 242. Outboard powered – but the outboard wasn't rigged (it goes on a bracket on the transom) - they'd just finished racing, so perhaps they retired or were tidying up the boat, before rigging the outboard and something went wrong –like dropping it over the side (all speculation of course).
The skipper is, to quote one source, "a very experienced racer" and indeed it seems he is or was the class contact for the make of boat at the club (granted, it's no guarantee of experience). However, this boat/skipper/crew was also the subject of a North Sail tuning guide: http://www.onedesign.com/tabid/38221/default.aspx...
So I'm guessing we can rule out crew inexperience :0)
Looking at the vid, it was a lee shore, but racers are used to cutting things close and until the wave picked them, rolled them and spat them out they were clear and were probably hoping to make it into ther harbour and grab a tow. The mainsail wasn't threaded into the boom - bolt rope arrangement, but there is a halyard attached, whether it was operational or not, who knows? Is the boom/mainsail intact?
Here's where it happened: https://goo.gl/maps/MfJNACD8qR62
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
True, but that doesn't mean that they are necessarily any better at getting away with it, just that they are willing to accept higher risks of things going wrong in return for the higher chance of winning.
snooks
Well-Known Member
No, but they are much more familiar with handling their boats under sail close to other boats, buoys obstructions etc. And to be fair, if not generous, to the skipper, he did seem to be clear, and the wave that got them appeared to break farther out than the previous waves. But I'm guessing tide/current/wind we're taking him in. We also don't know how far away a tow was.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
That's the same point, really, so my reply is also the same: "more familiar" does not necessarily mean "more competent", largely because competence doesn't come into it much. If you find yourself sliding sideways into a pier as close as these guys were, there is no competence - or familiarity - in the world which will save you.
mainsail1
Well-Known Member
I would love to know why they could not make their genny give them the power they needed. I wonder if it is a lift keel boat and whether the keel had jammed in the up position.
dom
Well-Known Member
Notwithstanding a personal dislike of Statler & Waldorf threads (not saying you're doing that) and bearing in mind that I don't know where the beach was, a host of other uncertainties and the fact that some of the crew may have justifiably panicked -- I would not say that the boat in question was sailed well on that particular occasion.
High efficiency airfoils of any sort can be intolerant of angles of attack outside a fairly narrow band. This is true of sails, rudders, keels and I dare say it wings, though you are the expert there. Too flat an angle of attack and/or too low speed and lift collapses; too steep and a high-efficiency foil can stall more easily than a lower aspect less efficient one.
In this case the crew, for whatever reason, appear to have all three foils stalled: rudder hard over, the boat almost stopped and the sail also stalled. With the benefit of hindsight the crew should probably have borne away earlier, got the boat moving quickly, tacked and reached back out, I think. And all with the benefit of hindsight and the comfort of my sofa.
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RichardS
N/A
As mentioned in #4, it looks as if the sheet was caught and the guy at the mast was trying to free it to allow the sail to set but was not successful.
Richard
Skylark
Well-Known Member
What a dreadful video, can't help but feel for the skipper and crew. Must have been a terrifying experience.
I know the area albeit I haven't been there for 15 years. Used to regularly visit company HQ a couple of miles away in Torrance. Stayed many times at the famous Portofino Inn, Redondo Beach. Sailed out of the marina several times in a Catalina 38 sail boat and a Grand Banks Trawler belonging to colleagues. Even in calm waters, the Pacifc swell is very different from anything we get over here (at least in the Irish Sea). Quite uncomfortable for the occasional (visiting) yachtsman. Onshore breeze is very common.
I know the area albeit I haven't been there for 15 years. Used to regularly visit company HQ a couple of miles away in Torrance. Stayed many times at the famous Portofino Inn, Redondo Beach. Sailed out of the marina several times in a Catalina 38 sail boat and a Grand Banks Trawler belonging to colleagues. Even in calm waters, the Pacifc swell is very different from anything we get over here (at least in the Irish Sea). Quite uncomfortable for the occasional (visiting) yachtsman. Onshore breeze is very common.
Robert Wilson
Well-Known Member
One heck of an under-tow on the beach side of the pier - I reckon they were lucky to make safety before becoming exhausted; even if they weren't injured in the crash.
Very scary, and all went wrong in just a few minutes.
Very scary, and all went wrong in just a few minutes.
snooks
Well-Known Member
From a bit more research it seems they were racing, wind went from 10 knots to 30 over the course of the race, which was subsequently abandoned. This yacht had shredded her mainsail and was sailing in under jib alone. However as we can see from the video it appears the jibsheet/genoa car got fouled. That, the current, and the onshore breeze all contributed to the events that unfolded.
It also appears the skipper/owner had won many races and had had the boat for at least 3 years and raced her regularly.
It also appears the skipper/owner had won many races and had had the boat for at least 3 years and raced her regularly.
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
Very hard to comment without knowing the full story, but they look to be in trouble from before the start of the video in the first post. For whatever reason, they're not able to trim the headsail to get the boat sailing. If it were me I'd be looking to tack at that stage to sail out and sort out the problem, even if it meant cutting the fouled sheet (if you cut close to the bowline you lose very little).
PilotWolf
Well-Known Member
I live on the Torrance/South Redondo border.
Did you ever eat at Old Tonys' on the pier? Even on a moderate day the pier can be felt to move as the breakers roll in.
I don't know why he was so close but it's not somewhere I'd want to have been in those conditions without some serious horsepower available.
W.
Skylark
Well-Known Member
Wow! Nice location! My company had its HQ on Lomita Blvd. Yes, I've eaten at Tony's on the pier several times. Very fond memories of Refondo Beach. I worked for that company for 20 years and on average visited Torrance a couple of times each year, longest trip was for about 4 months. A great location for outdoor activities.!I used to join my colleagues on their weekly evening brisk walks, typically around the hills of PV. A Brit ex-pat friend had a house overlooking Manhattan Beach. He swam every morning before work! I used to enjoy taking the cycle path from Portofino to Venice at weekends, wonderful entertainment. I've done a few shore dives from Catalina Island and also in the kelp forests further south towards Long Beach. I joined in 1987 and enjoyed my induction to Mexican food. My favourite was Chubasco's at the intersection of Lomita and Torrance. Does Texas Loosey's restaurant still exists on PCH, Redondo? Near naked waitresses dressed as cowgirls. Happy days but not very PC, eh?
Sorry for the thread drift.
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What we have here is a disabled vessel on a lee shore in high seas. In those circumstances there's very little to be done. They were trying, but failed, to get the jib working. I suspect it was too late anyway. being a racing boat, the anchor, even if they had one, was probably stowed away somewhere, though two crew are doing little and might have deployed it.
If they'd just finished a race, where was the rescue boat?
This must have been a common occurrence in the not-so-distant days before engines.
If they'd just finished a race, where was the rescue boat?
This must have been a common occurrence in the not-so-distant days before engines.
PilotWolf
Well-Known Member
Texas Loosey's still exists but now on Palos Verdes Drive in Torrance.
We love it here but with our lease expiring in a couple of months it's likely we will be priced out of the area
W.
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
The number one question is where was the anchor?
savageseadog
Well-Known Member
They did have a fair while to sort one
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Racers don't need anchors because they have superior skills, or something.
