Sail a boat to Greece/Turkey and put it out to charter?

[sveinutne]

Hi Graham,
Thank you for your advice. I will answer you in the thread "How to finance live aboard" that I started with almost the same question, so we do not run two almost identical threads.
Regards
Svein

 

[Tony Cross]

Not recommended! Illegal charters in some countries could lead to very serious and expensive consequences and don't think you won't get caught. We've seen a couple of boats doing this, easy to spot the difference beween passengers and crew by the way they act and are waited on. Other legal charterers will want you out of business and some wouldn't hesitate to report you to the authorities.

And not only that but should one of your clients/guests suffer injury or death during an illegal charter you'd quickly find yourself in the deep brown smelly stuff.

 

[Steve C Cronin]

Greeks in general are quite selfish people and they resent even other Greeks doing better than they are, the current painful austerity measures have made this situation even worse. If you were to try to set up as a one-man-one-boat charter business almost anywhere in Greece you'd face considerable hostility from the local tripper boat and day charter owners to start with, possibly even outright anger. Nobody will want to help you succeed (or even see you succeed) when they are nearly all struggling themselves. In addition the bureaucratic hoops you'll have to jump through to get the thing off the ground will be considerable. Despite Greece being an EU member state it's very difficult to start any business here which doesn't have a Greek involvement/partnership.

If maxy who posted earlier thinks you can make it work in Turkey I'd suggest you PM him and ask for some pointers on how to start there but with hand-on-heart and 8 years experience of being here, I think you have very little chance of making your idea work in Greece. Sorry.

Well! I'm glad it was YOU who said that Tony and not me! If it had been, I'm sure that by now I would be receiving all the usual hate mail and accusations of xenophobia. No doubt JB et al will be along soon to correct that!

You will be aware I am sure that a couple of otherwise successful businessmen in Corfu have been more or less run out of town because their previous relationships with the daughters of local "Babas" ended and so they lost their "honorary local" status.

 

[1bobt]

Well! I'm glad it was YOU who said that Tony and not me! If it had been, I'm sure that by now I would be receiving all the usual hate mail and accusations of xenophobia. No doubt JB et al will be along soon to correct that!

You will be aware I am sure that a couple of otherwise successful businessmen in Corfu have been more or less run out of town because their previous relationships with the daughters of local "Babas" ended and so they lost their "honorary local" status.

Hey Jessica ,you aren't half a old gossip.

 

[phantomlady]

An enterprising owner here.....

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Vacati...Gran_Canaria_Gran_Canaria_Canary_Islands.html

 

[Melody]

When we first came to Greece there were a number of people taking paying guests on private yachts. However, as others have pointed out, it is totally illegal. I don't know anyone who is still doing it and you are very likely to get caught. Your customers would be uninsured, your boat may well not carry the full safety equipment required of a commercial operator, and I suspect you would not be declaring your income so you would be breaking numerous laws and putting your guests at risk. If personal friends want to sail with you and contribute to food and fuel that is fine but if you advertise private charter you'll be found out these days.

 

[Bertramdriver]

Hi Melody
Any news re Steve. Has he had his op?

 

[vyv_cox]

About four or five years ago a British guy intended setting up a charter business in a small port in Zakinthos. I don't believe he had any of the relevant paperwork. His boat 'broke away' from its anchor one night and went aground just inside the wall. He made strenuous efforts to refloat it, watched by many local people who apparently made no effort whatsoever to help him. Eventually he was forced to give up and the boat became a total write-off. We anchored off a few days later, by which time the boat was half full of sand and stripped of most of its fittings.

He wrote it all up here at the time and was convinced that his anchor warp had been cut, although I must say that in the place he anchored it might well have been cut by the propeller of one of the many speedboats entering and leaving the port.

 

[Marsupial]

Obviously I only have one pair of eyes and I am only in one place at a time BUT, my observations over the last 4 years in Greece and Turkey reveal a general downward trend in activity. There are several charter fleets that have not moved this season (tucked away out of general view but mothballed all the same) and many more that have been pontoon bound for weeks on end. To my CERTAIN knowledge there is more than one charter firm leaving Turkey next season because of a lack of customers and future bookings, their season started late and ended early. In general this year, the number of yachts on flotillas has been down - sometimes one paying customer and one lead boat is the entire flotilla, yes there have been some busy days/weeks but generally activity is down. But as I said at the beginning I only have one pair of eyes but they do travel around a bit. PLUS the view from my lounge window gives an indication of activity, 5 years ago there were too many sails to count in scapia limiani this year on any day counting them was easy. Not very scientific I know but taken overall my view from the sea and land tells me that over this year, overall activity is down.

YES sparkling new yachts do attract charterers but why then is Sailing Holidays so successful with its ageing fleet of jag 25s? its a rhetorical question.

If I were the OP I would continue to explore the possibility of providing the service he describes, it wont be easy money, but I think there could be a niche for a cleverly marketed single largish boat operation - but it must be legal.

 

[Tranona]

YES sparkling new yachts do attract charterers but why then is Sailing Holidays so successful with its ageing fleet of jag 25s? its a rhetorical question.

Think you will find they are no longer in use - and they were popular because they met a sector of the market that others had abandoned - and were cheap. The SH fleet is much more up to date now, largely relatively new Bennies.

 

[Marsupial]

Think you will find they are no longer in use - and they were popular because they met a sector of the market that others had abandoned - and were cheap. The SH fleet is much more up to date now, largely relatively new Bennies.

so I did n't see Sailing Holidays Jag 25's last year - must get some new eyes.

 

[charles_reed]

Think you will find they are no longer in use - and they were popular because they met a sector of the market that others had abandoned - and were cheap. The SH fleet is much more up to date now, largely relatively new Bennies.

They're very much in use and can be found on offer at the bottom of their current boatlist. Recommended for 2.

Marsupial - irony is often wasted on the self-righteous ;-)

 

[Cariadco]

Think you will find they are no longer in use - and they were popular because they met a sector of the market that others had abandoned - and were cheap. The SH fleet is much more up to date now, largely relatively new Bennies.

The main reason SH are so successful is not only excellent value for money, but everyone that goes with the have the time of their life. I know, as I've sent loads of friends to them and all have come back saying that was the best holiday they've ever had. ALL of them!!

 

[Melody]

my observations over the last 4 years in Greece and Turkey reveal a general downward trend in activity. ... Not very scientific I know but taken overall my view from the sea and land tells me that over this year, overall activity is down.

Can't speak for anywhere else but most charter companies I know here have had a great season this year and the good weather meant it kept going longer than normal.

 

[rib]

ffs.who does one belive !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Appleyard]

"Jessica" of course..who else?

 

[Marsupial]

Can't speak for anywhere else but most charter companies I know here have had a great season this year and the good weather meant it kept going longer than normal.

in which case WHY are at least 2 charter companies leaving because of a lack of bookings THIS SEASON and WHY has there been a massive downturn in hotel bookings this year in Fethiye and Olu Deniz and how is it some members on here know more about what I have seen and witnessed with my own eyes than I do? pillocks

Are you telling me that a flotilla with 2 boats on it where one is the lead boat is a viable business? and this is week in week out this year; and are you telling me that the fleets I have seen laid up this year in Kos and Turkey are laid up because the owners chose not to earn from them? Agreed their withdrawal from the industry will lead/should lead to what is left being sweated but that's not the point - overall activity this year is markedly down. My Turkish gullet owning friends are also crying in their efes. Its general, some caused by the Greek Cyprus money problems, some caused by Syria and most caused by the fact that the brits generally holidayed at home this year.

I pride myself in being able to count and this year there have been far fewer boats visible from my vantage point, and many fewer Brit, Russian and German holiday makers are in the town, the only time everything shore side was fully booked was Bayram. My friends in the holiday booking industry (shore side travel operator) were laid off a month early this year, its another "indicator" of activity.

I am not suggesting we are at crisis point but smearing rose paint on the lenses merely distorts the actual situation. Positively the only way is up.

 

[1bobt]

in which case WHY are at least 2 charter companies leaving because of a lack of bookings THIS SEASON and WHY has there been a massive downturn in hotel bookings this year in Fethiye and Olu Deniz and how is it some members on here know more about what I have seen and witnessed with my own eyes than I do? pillocks

Are you telling me that a flotilla with 2 boats on it where one is the lead boat is a viable business? and this is week in week out this year; and are you telling me that the fleets I have seen laid up this year in Kos and Turkey are laid up because the owners chose not to earn from them? Agreed their withdrawal from the industry will lead/should lead to what is left being sweated but that's not the point - overall activity this year is markedly down. My Turkish gullet owning friends are also crying in their efes. Its general, some caused by the Greek Cyprus money problems, some caused by Syria and most caused by the fact that the brits generally holidayed at home this year.

I pride myself in being able to count and this year there have been far fewer boats visible from my vantage point, and many fewer Brit, Russian and German holiday makers are in the town, the only time everything shore side was fully booked was Bayram. My friends in the holiday booking industry (shore side travel operator) were laid off a month early this year, its another "indicator" of activity.

I am not suggesting we are at crisis point but smearing rose paint on the lenses merely distorts the actual situation. Positively the only way is up.

+1
Noticeable reduction in yachts this year and I have been in Poros /Aegina for 15 years .Aegina is holding out but in Poros there will be at least 3 tavernas closing this year due to the downturn in yachting activity as this is their main source of income. Rota and Posidonos the exception.

 

[vyv_cox]

+1
Noticeable reduction in yachts this year and I have been in Poros /Aegina for 15 years .Aegina is holding out but in Poros there will be at least 3 tavernas closing this year due to the downturn in yachting activity as this is their main source of income. Rota and Posidonos the exception.

Our experience in Leros very much in agreement with these. A taverna owner in Lakki told us at the end of 2012 season that he had had no Greek customers for a month, only yachties. Beginning of the 2013 season he said he had suffered a very poor winter (understandably with very few over-wintering yachts). Seemed to be still going this year but we know of two in the town that have closed down. Another taverna in Alinda that we enjoy very much told us in July that the season had not yet started for him. Again, this is more to do with fewer Greek customers as yacht crews here would be unusual.

 

[Melody]

I think it probably depends which company you speak to. I don't know anything about Turkey except at the Southampton Boat Show I had a long discussion with one charter company based there and he said his business was booming.

Here in the Athens area I think all the Greek charter companies we deal with have had a very good season, as have we, although it was a little slow at the start. Tons better than last year though when the lack of a viable election result put everything in to chaos and talk of Greece leaving the euro made people reluctant to book.

We charter yachts for many of our students and several weeks this summer we had a real problem finding anything available.

Tavernas are suffering badly due to the lack of money in the general public rather than the lack of yachts I think.