Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
So i cannot flog you a mooring in St Lawrence Bay -- stlawrencefairwaycommittee.com- sorry that is probably considered advertising & yes! I do have a vested interest
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Sadler 29
- Thread starter GPS2
- Start date
So i cannot flog you a mooring in St Lawrence Bay -- stlawrencefairwaycommittee.com- sorry that is probably considered advertising & yes! I do have a vested interest
GPS2
Active Member
I think you got away with the advertising, no one noticed!
It is a good point though, what are the wider options on the East Coast, Sailing Club v council moorings v marina? It seems to a newbie like me, £1000 v £600 v £2000 pa for a 29 ft
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Right this really is sales talk now!!!
Our website shows the cost. initially high but over 3 years ( once the mooring is placed) the cost averages out quite low. current annual fee is £ 120-00
you need access to the river which is explained , but if you want to join a club then Stone SC - like Blackwater, can provide facilities for winter moorings but like Blackwater etc you have to add club fees which is pretty much the same on the river I think
Your biggest favourite is driving distance- If blackwater club is nearer it will be cheaper in travelling. i think Stone has advantages over Blackwater - but I am a biased Stone member of 52 years
I think St Lawrence Bay has the advantage over other areas in that it is nearer the mouth of the river so you save an hours sail. Plus one is always afloat & there is the bay to sail in
You can always pm me on this forum for my private email address & phone No( I am having problems with emails & the last page on the site) The site works best in ie rather than firefox or chrome
GPS2
Active Member
Thank you for explaining the options which helps understand the costs involved. I will certainly have a look at St Lawerence Bay, the additional sailing time is certainly attractive. I have just returned from South Benfleet and the chap I met there winters his boat at the SC and then moors 5 miles further up the mouth in summer to increase the time afloat. Cost v convenience is clearly a compromise for many.
GPS2
Active Member
Just been pipped at the post on a very nice S29 example in Woodbridge. Buyers came all the way from Scotland and clearly knew a good boat, I wish them great sailing ahead.
If anyone knows of a v good 1988+ S29 twin keel that needs a good new home, please let me know :encouragement:
If anyone knows of a v good 1988+ S29 twin keel that needs a good new home, please let me know :encouragement:
lpdsn
Well-Known Member
Mine (not a Sadler): Rivets corroded where Aluminium foil sections joined so they were slightly misaligned. Sail jammed during a hoist. Crew on halyard winch somehow neither heard me yelling STOP nor the echo of it off the surrounding hills.
Another boat (big*): furling line had been removed and refitted over the winter but was now too short. Crew winched it in too far - damaged the drum.
Check the drum rotates freely and no obvious sign of damage. If not on the hard, try it with a real sail.
Check the forestay has all the necessary degrees of freedom (usually you can see how it is attached under the drum).
Check feeder & monkey balls are ok (again if you can with a real sail - the groove, feeder etc. should all match the luff tape on the sail).
Check foils are aligned and no corrosion - you might be lucky with a 29 footer and it is a single piece plastic foil.
Check the top swivel is undamaged and rotates freely - might need lubrication.
Check there has been no twisting at the top of the forestay (a video camera zoomed in at max is a handy way of having a good look if the mast is up). If there has been you'll notice strands becoming a bit separated - means the forestay may have been twisted by the furling gear so you may need to replace it).
Check the run of the furling line (via stanchion blocks probably) and how it is cleated off at the cockpit end.
The furling line itself might be old and worn, but that sort of replacement is just part of boat ownership.
I'm sure others can add to this.
*Before anyone bleets you shouldn't use a winch on a furling line, it was a big boat.
GPS2
Active Member
Thank you Ipdsn
that has given me much to look at, having now been introduced to feeder and monkey balls, I will need to spend a bit more time on the Ronstan furling webpage. Great tip on using a Video camera to view detail close up. I have found that looking at pictures taken at viewings have shown detail that I had not noticed at the time. I didn't think to look at how the lines run after of forestay freedom, great pointers amongst many, thank you. One boat also had continuous furling lines to reduce jamming which sounds sensible.
that has given me much to look at, having now been introduced to feeder and monkey balls, I will need to spend a bit more time on the Ronstan furling webpage. Great tip on using a Video camera to view detail close up. I have found that looking at pictures taken at viewings have shown detail that I had not noticed at the time. I didn't think to look at how the lines run after of forestay freedom, great pointers amongst many, thank you. One boat also had continuous furling lines to reduce jamming which sounds sensible.
Crowblack
Well-Known Member
If you are looking for a club on the Blackwater - maybe have a look at Marconi - great bunch of guy's (and gals') a very welcoming self help club with great club house bar, showers etc, moorings in the river and you can lift out for the winter too.
http://www.marconi-sc.org.uk/
http://www.marconi-sc.org.uk/
Neil_Y
Well-Known Member
One problem with the Sadler 29 which might be common to other Sadlers is the internal moulding and re wiring.
A boat over 20 years old will likely to need some new wiring, most of the wiring on the 29 is in conduits run between the hull and an inner moulding. Trying to feed new wires down the old conduit can be very difficult or near impossible as there are some tight bends and I suspect where the conduit is bent it might collapse or sqaush over time. So have a good look at the wiring if you do re-wire much of it will have to be surface mounted.
Oter than that there are no real problems that I've found, I've sailed and helped look after a 29 fin keel for a number of years, they sail well.
A boat over 20 years old will likely to need some new wiring, most of the wiring on the 29 is in conduits run between the hull and an inner moulding. Trying to feed new wires down the old conduit can be very difficult or near impossible as there are some tight bends and I suspect where the conduit is bent it might collapse or sqaush over time. So have a good look at the wiring if you do re-wire much of it will have to be surface mounted.
Oter than that there are no real problems that I've found, I've sailed and helped look after a 29 fin keel for a number of years, they sail well.
niccapotamus
Well-Known Member
I can't add much to the above. I wanted a B/K sadler 29 as we wanted bilge keels for various reasons - fear of a lifting keel dropping off/jamming/pain of maintenance, shallow draft, ability to dry out, able to hire cheap semi tidal moorings to reduce the cost of ownership.
The sadler stood out as one of the best performing t/k boats as we also wanted to sail forwards as well as sideways. In the end, and by accident we bought a b/k seawolf 30 - mainly because it was there and in good nick and didn't sail too badly either.
Mainly just keep back a lot of money for improving/renovating/making good. Our boat was in VGC for the year and had just come back from a round the UK trip so she was fairly well sorted. Even so I think we are into about 4K (my wife would probably say it was more than that!) - standing rigging renewal, proper overhaul of the old engine, a little bit of electronics (not much), tweaking of the sail handling, renewal of the gas line to the cooker etc etc. The purchase price is almost like the initial deposit on a boat that might cost 25%-30% more once you have her fettled properly (and that is with a tidy starting boat).
I'd suggest you avoid the ones that look like a bit of a project (some enjoy endless improving but a very tired boat would drive me mad, and us into financial ruin), but also be realistic (there are a few people - some post on here - who spend years looking for the "ideal" boat - just think of all of those lost sailing days) - an older boat will not be perfect but IMHO should be a bloody good starting point to aim for your view of perfection. There are loads for sale - at varying price points but it is a buyers market. Sadly you probably have to book up the next few months doing the legwork phoning and then going to have a look at them. Maybe a good excuse to buy a motorbike and combine the two
I'm sure you could put together a list of sensible questions which will weed out the obvious no-hopers. We weren't out to get a "bargain" or to drive the price down to the lowest possible - IMHO we were buying for life and as I said initially, the initial purchase price is just a deposit so a grand either way doesn't make much difference in the long run - if the boat speaks to you then go for it.
But on the positive, we are proud and already love our boat, and nothing beats the pleasure of just being around the boat, let alone sailing, or anchoring right in the middle of a millionaire's view and calling it home for the night
The sadler stood out as one of the best performing t/k boats as we also wanted to sail forwards as well as sideways. In the end, and by accident we bought a b/k seawolf 30 - mainly because it was there and in good nick and didn't sail too badly either.
Mainly just keep back a lot of money for improving/renovating/making good. Our boat was in VGC for the year and had just come back from a round the UK trip so she was fairly well sorted. Even so I think we are into about 4K (my wife would probably say it was more than that!) - standing rigging renewal, proper overhaul of the old engine, a little bit of electronics (not much), tweaking of the sail handling, renewal of the gas line to the cooker etc etc. The purchase price is almost like the initial deposit on a boat that might cost 25%-30% more once you have her fettled properly (and that is with a tidy starting boat).
I'd suggest you avoid the ones that look like a bit of a project (some enjoy endless improving but a very tired boat would drive me mad, and us into financial ruin), but also be realistic (there are a few people - some post on here - who spend years looking for the "ideal" boat - just think of all of those lost sailing days) - an older boat will not be perfect but IMHO should be a bloody good starting point to aim for your view of perfection. There are loads for sale - at varying price points but it is a buyers market. Sadly you probably have to book up the next few months doing the legwork phoning and then going to have a look at them. Maybe a good excuse to buy a motorbike and combine the two
I'm sure you could put together a list of sensible questions which will weed out the obvious no-hopers. We weren't out to get a "bargain" or to drive the price down to the lowest possible - IMHO we were buying for life and as I said initially, the initial purchase price is just a deposit so a grand either way doesn't make much difference in the long run - if the boat speaks to you then go for it.But on the positive, we are proud and already love our boat, and nothing beats the pleasure of just being around the boat, let alone sailing, or anchoring right in the middle of a millionaire's view and calling it home for the night
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vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
Amen to that! The 34 is very similar in design and suffers the same frustrating problem. However, with perseverance it is possible to add or change wiring and in 25 years of ownership I have yet to resort to surface wiring. The trick is to always add mousing lines and leave them in place for future use. In some cases early on I pulled through existing wires to add the mousing line, then replaced them.
GPS2
Active Member
Thank you for the link, it is great to see thriving self funded clubs working hard to offer such a fantastic community facilities to all. To read about fastnet challengers, racing and sailing for youngsters and next door at BSC, similar enthusiasm it is heartwarming.
GPS2
Active Member
Neil Y and Viv,
As i tighten up my sadler 29 things to look out for list, you and many others have helped me think about the little things that don't immediately stand out. As someone stated, In the end £1k purchase price either way matters not, if the boat is good you will happily spend the extra. Exactly as many have kindly advised, if you don't take these small requirements into consideration, you might have just unknowingly agreed to spend £5k or even £10k on thinking "that all looks ok" I am sure there are many stories out there!
So much to learn so little time. Except all here have been very helpful and supporting, I thank you and look forward to hopefully more helpful advice
As i tighten up my sadler 29 things to look out for list, you and many others have helped me think about the little things that don't immediately stand out. As someone stated, In the end £1k purchase price either way matters not, if the boat is good you will happily spend the extra. Exactly as many have kindly advised, if you don't take these small requirements into consideration, you might have just unknowingly agreed to spend £5k or even £10k on thinking "that all looks ok" I am sure there are many stories out there!
So much to learn so little time. Except all here have been very helpful and supporting, I thank you and look forward to hopefully more helpful advice
GPS2
Active Member
anchoring right in the middle of a millionaire's view and calling it home for the night
i have soo much to learn but laughed out loud on the tube today reading this. several people looked at me in the quiet that is the Piccadilly line at 7.40am. Thank you for taking me away to a mooring somewhere very far away with its on subtitle humour
i have soo much to learn but laughed out loud on the tube today reading this. several people looked at me in the quiet that is the Piccadilly line at 7.40am. Thank you for taking me away to a mooring somewhere very far away with its on subtitle humour
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
Just joined the forum and have picked up some helpful advice and tips - thank you.
I am, like many before me moving up from dinghy sailing to yacht. I have now focused in on a Sadler 29 twin keel for the East Coast and have looked at a few "tired" old girls. Can anyone share any experience of ownership, things to look out for and expectations from 30 year old engines, spars. VAT certified seems to be a bit hit or miss, would you buy without it
Yes:
1/ very slow and will be frustrating coming from a dinghy. The one we have in our race fleet is invariably the last boat on the water ( fleet includes 22 ft boats and other bilge keelers) unless its blowing when he sometimes wins. Good slow seaboat
2/ The side decks! There arent any really - as narrow as can be and sloping outwards.
3/ osmosis and water in the foam.
4/ many have old Bukh engines which by now are very tired. They are solid old engines however so they can be refurbed.
You would do better with a simplar sized Moody or Westerly TBH
johnalison
Well-Known Member
Any cruiser is going to seem a bit plodding after a dinghy but the Sadler is light on the helm and has a decent performance. The slow boat in your fleet is almost certainly being sailed very badly. When we had our fin-keeled Sadler, we did a bit of racing and our results were much as one would expect, a bit behind the 32s but ahead of the Merlin and like. I remember sailing rapidly past some of our sister ships, for no obvious reason and only one 29 held its own against us.
We lived with the side decks happily for fourteen years. In fact, I used to take a delight in watching rafters tripping over our wire jackstays. The windward sloping deck is reasonably easy to walk along when the boat is heeled.
I don't think osmosis is at all common in boats made after the mid '80s, when modern resins were used. There are plenty of Sadlers around without water in the foam.
I think most, if not all boats from the mid-'80s had the Volvo 2002. Depending on use, some will be coming to the end of their lives but it was a handy motor in its time.
When we bought ours new, we couldn't afford the good Moody 30, and the smaller Westerlys and Moodys had much inferior accomodation.
Mavis
Well-Known Member
I have a 29 and it will be perfect for you. They are not slow at all, and come from a good pedigree of stable well balanced sea boats. Warm, quiet and dry inside with no condensation to worry about, and with the benefit that they will not sink like a stone which is comforting. I admit that mine is one of the last to be built but have certainly not noticed any problems with the foam core. Go for it you will not regret your choice.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
At the age of 21 I went from a Hornet to a Stella & never found the latter wanting.
Infact i found racing the Stella very hard work- more so than a Hornet due to the longer races
I also found the one design racing in fleets of 20+ excellent so that made it more exciting as all speed was relative to the competition
Unfortunately i do not know of current cruiser classes that race week after week in the same numbers
In later years I did EAORA races which were a procession so although fun in a larger boat still a bit of a procession at the end
The one thing i did find in such races was that you had more fun if you were in a fast boat rather than a slow one even though it might not rate so well
Try some thing like an Impala OOD which is considerably faster than the sadlers ( even 34's) if sailed well & you will have more fun
Boats such a Westerlies are not so " trimmable" obviously good trim makes a boat sail faster but some boats respond much better to a bit of trimming than others
Infact i found racing the Stella very hard work- more so than a Hornet due to the longer races
I also found the one design racing in fleets of 20+ excellent so that made it more exciting as all speed was relative to the competition
Unfortunately i do not know of current cruiser classes that race week after week in the same numbers
In later years I did EAORA races which were a procession so although fun in a larger boat still a bit of a procession at the end
The one thing i did find in such races was that you had more fun if you were in a fast boat rather than a slow one even though it might not rate so well
Try some thing like an Impala OOD which is considerably faster than the sadlers ( even 34's) if sailed well & you will have more fun
Boats such a Westerlies are not so " trimmable" obviously good trim makes a boat sail faster but some boats respond much better to a bit of trimming than others
niccapotamus
Well-Known Member
i've had a part share in a Moody 30 - admittedly the older one but i suspect that is the one that would be within budget. It was a fin keel boat. Observations and all imho etc
imprecise wheel steering which was unnecessary on such a short boat
cockpit too wide and difficult to find comfortable spots
wheel not wide enough as there wasn't any great seated helming position
fairly imprecise feel under sail (probably lack of feedback through the wheel) and needed reefing early
great accomodation down below and solidly built
dry ride
fine in a blow
in the boats defence she was a shared boat and therefore it is possible that some of the stuff that I perceived as an issue could be sorted by a loving owner
In comparison all the reviews that I have read of the Sadler 29 emphasise what a good seaboat she is and how relatively fast - one comment was that they only start performing to handicap when the wind gets up a bit. I have also heard it said that it was often difficult to tell fin and bilge keel apart on performance as the age of sails and ability of crew was more relevant than the keels - albeit that with equal boats and crews the fin keel would outperform.
my comments about the 29 are all hearsay and what I have read, as we didn't buy one
imprecise wheel steering which was unnecessary on such a short boat
cockpit too wide and difficult to find comfortable spots
wheel not wide enough as there wasn't any great seated helming position
fairly imprecise feel under sail (probably lack of feedback through the wheel) and needed reefing early
great accomodation down below and solidly built
dry ride
fine in a blow
in the boats defence she was a shared boat and therefore it is possible that some of the stuff that I perceived as an issue could be sorted by a loving owner
In comparison all the reviews that I have read of the Sadler 29 emphasise what a good seaboat she is and how relatively fast - one comment was that they only start performing to handicap when the wind gets up a bit. I have also heard it said that it was often difficult to tell fin and bilge keel apart on performance as the age of sails and ability of crew was more relevant than the keels - albeit that with equal boats and crews the fin keel would outperform.
my comments about the 29 are all hearsay and what I have read, as we didn't buy one
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Birdseye
Well-Known Member
I never take much notice of the comments of a boat owner on his boat - we are all in love with our boat until we fall out of love and sell it. The Sadler 29 is a slowish boat - my club has three Sadler 29 bilgies at the moment and has had 4 in the recent past so I have seen how they did in races under various ownerships ( club boats often change hands within the club). Yes they are good sea boats and yes they do get a lot nearer their handicap in 30kn than in 10kn. But to someone coming from a dinghy they are likely to be on the slow and stodgy side of the spectrum. And at the risk of repeating myself, having crewed and cruised on them, I would not consider owning one because of the side decks which IMO are too narrow and angled to be safe.
How about a Hunter? More sporty and dinghy like.
How about a Hunter? More sporty and dinghy like.
