RYA? what does it do for powerboaters?

[Adrianwool]

I would like to hear the opinion of power boaters on whether the RYA offers much to us as a fraternity. To me a lot of lip service is paid by providing courses for power boaters , but I cant but feel that the RYA's heart is not in it. This is also reflected in the RYA magazine where there is much talk of sailing and little talk of powerboating. Does anyone know the split between sailing yacht owners and powerboat owners in terms of the membership?. It sometimes seems to me that the RYA is quite happy to take your £63 per year membership money as a powerboater, and then fervently hopes you don't bother them until it is time to collect next years subs. Do we need a separate body to represent us? - discuss!

 

[Hurricane]

IMO the RYA doesnt do anything for the everyday boater - sailing or motorboating.

Its only interested with its internal politics and not for promoting its sport.

Sorry guys - they are simply a waste of space.

 

[Nick_H]

What would you like them to do that they don't? The only thing I want from a marine organisation is to protect us from creeping regulation. I actively don't want anyone trying to organise my mobo cruising, as I already know how to start the engines, drop the anchor, and mix a G&T. Sailing has a greater emphasis on racing, where some level of organisation is required, so I suppose it's no surprise that they focus more on sailing.

 

[oceanfroggie]

Agree. The 'Y' in RYA is a sort of giveaway (ie yachting as in sailing as in racing). Much like the 'S' in the ISA (Irish Sailing Association). Both organisations trying to cover 'boating' in general, but essentially originated from dingy racing and yacht racing, which is where their heart beat still is. The RYA/ISA offer motor boaters and power boaters training schemes and that's about it.

 

[timbartlett]

I would like to hear the opinion of power boaters on whether the RYA offers much to us as a fraternity.

OK, work out how much you have spent on diesel in the past ten years.
Double or treble it to find out (very roughly) how much you would have spent if you had been paying road fuel rates.
Subtract the amount you have spent on RYA subscriptions in the same time.
The answer is how much hard cash the RYA has saved you on just one single issue.

Then think about all the other things the RYA has done to prevent or delay unwanted government intrusion into boating -- e-borders, licencing, compulsory registration, drink-boat legislation. They can't win every battle, and there are some things that (IMPO) they get wrong -- but at least they try!

 

[Observer]

OK, work out how much you have spent on diesel in the past ten years.
Double or treble it to find out (very roughly) how much you would have spent if you had been paying road fuel rates.
Subtract the amount you have spent on RYA subscriptions in the same time.
The answer is how much hard cash the RYA has saved you on just one single issue.

Then think about all the other things the RYA has done to prevent or delay unwanted government intrusion into boating -- e-borders, licencing, compulsory registration, drink-boat legislation. They can't win every battle, and there are some things that (IMPO) they get wrong -- but at least they try!

Fully agree. We (power boat users) are infinitely better off with the RYA than without. If not the RYA, we would have no coherent voice at all. The RYA is not perfect and perhaps could do more. If you feel strongly about that, put yourself up for election and try and improve matters.

(RYA member for ~15 years).

 

[volvopaul]

Yes Adrian I think a separate body would help, then I would become a member again, I only joined once to get my qualifications, I never renewed after that, to be honest no renewal was ever sent either.

I think its more towards yachtsmen rather than us motorboaters, the red issue was very vague in my opinion, we waited for ages until a decision was made, we still ahve red, but still have problems when we visit abroad, one thing that I thought about was, should visiting vessels be allowed to fill there tanks with red here then return home? I bet they dont get dipped or impounded or made to drain off the red or pay duty on it, so why should we.

What have the rya done to help us on that one.

I think its more towards sailing and the olympics, thats where your money goes.

All IMHO of course.!!

 

[miket]

RYA Cruising

I do feel that RYA are primarily interested in racing and I guess that is the high profile element that gives them clout in other boat related areas. Tim Bartlett is right about specific benefits to our pocket.
I suspect that quite a few "cruising" raggies feel that they don't get much value from RYA either.
On the cruising side, it really doesn't make a huge difference whether you are power or sail. We all use; buoys, charts, radar, etc, and any changes will be monitored by RYA on ALL our behalf. We also all need the same navigational skills.
They also have a very helpful Legal team with info' on all things boaty.

 

[timbartlett]

Does anyone know the split between sailing yacht owners and powerboat owners in terms of the membership?.

From the RYA website:-

Membership
* Total members of 100,034 (as at Sept 2009)
* Top 3 popular areas of member interest (as at Sept 2009)
o Yacht Cruising - 34,872
o Motor Boating - 14,794
o Windsurfing - 9,246
Training
* The RYA offers 60 different theory and practical training courses
* Approximately 172,000 people took an RYA course in 2008
* The most popular course in 2008 was Powerboat Level 2, with 24,400 people taking the course
Honda RYA Youth RIB Championships (HYR)
* Approximately 4,000 youngsters aged 8-16 competed in the HRY championships 2008 - local heats, regional finals and national final.

Ther might be some merit in peeling the motorbaoting and sailing fraternities away from each other -- just as there might be some merit in separating out the cruising and racing sides of each, or the bigboat/littleboat sides. But we all have a lot more in common than we sometimes think: in particular we all depend on access to the water.

If the RYA were fragmented into many smaller bodies, none of them would have the resources required to monitor government activity, nor would they have the negotiating power to do anything about it.

Other organisations have similar issues, but in general I think it's fair to say that big combined bodies work best at protecting members interests. It's only when you get into activities with really huge numbers of participants (like caravanning and angling) works at all well.

 

[rickp]

OK, work out how much you have spent on diesel in the past ten years.
Double or treble it to find out (very roughly) how much you would have spent if you had been paying road fuel rates.
Subtract the amount you have spent on RYA subscriptions in the same time.
The answer is how much hard cash the RYA has saved you on just one single issue.

If there had been a separate body for motorboats - I imagine it would have acheived the same result. It may even have done better with the recent loss of derogation as it wouldn't have had a set of members saying "whack the duty up, it'll make the sea flat once we've bankrupted all the motorboaters".

No, the only advantage of the RYA is that it gives the Government one body to ignore, rather than several.

 

[benjenbav]

I can think of several ways I have benefited from being a member of the RYA.

Some good books. There's an excellent one about navigation

Red diesel.

Some representation in areas which are of concern to all boat users: radio licensing for one.

I'm glad there is an umbrella organisation for the Olympic sailing.

Not perfect. But what is?

 

[timbartlett]

the red issue was very vague in my opinion, we waited for ages until a decision was made,

The issue over a "harmonised" rate of tax on fuel in recreational craft *is* complicated, but the gist of it is that the UK has historically treated recreational and commercial craft alike, but most of the rest of Europe didn't.
When Europe set a minimum rate of duty on all fuel (with certain exceptions, including agricultural tractors and fishing vessels) our tax would have gone sky high, because the UK rate of tax on *road* fuel was much higher than anywhere else in Europe.
As a temporary fix, the UK got a "derogation", which allowed us to continue to tax pleasure boat fuel at commercial vessel rates. But it was only ever temporary, and was subject to regular renewal.
Every time it came up for renewal, the RYA first had to persuade the Government that there was a case to be made, and then supply them with the facts and figures to make that case. And for a couple of renewals, it worked.
The last time, it didn't, because the UK Government decided that it would sacrifice leisure boating as a political trade-off against some other deal (something to do with olive oil, or some such!)

 

[timbartlett]

If there had been a separate body for motorboats - I imagine it would have acheived the same result. It may even have done better with the recent loss of derogation as it wouldn't have had a set of members saying "whack the duty up, it'll make the sea flat once we've bankrupted all the motorboaters".

No, the only advantage of the RYA is that it gives the Government one body to ignore, rather than several.

Which body do you think the Government would be most likely to ignore: the RYA as it is, with an individual membership of 100,000 plus 350,000 associates, including at least one member of the royal family, several Lords, and quite a few MPs? or a hypothetical MBA with a membership of 14,000?

 

[rickp]

Which body do you think the Government would be most likely to ignore: the RYA as it is, with an individual membership of 100,000 plus 350,000 associates, including at least one member of the royal family, several Lords, and quite a few MPs? or a hypothetical MBA with a membership of 14,000?

You're very worked up over this aren't you? What is your relationship to the RYA - are they a customer of yours or something?

Edit: As to your question - I think the Government would ignore both. I suspect the hppothetical MBA wouldn't ignore my opinion whereas the RYA definitely does.

 

[Skylark]

With or without our nanny-state, there has to be a governing body so it may as well be the RYA. There is strength in numbers so it's better to have just one body, IMHO.

As others have said, they definitely do some good work. There was a lump in my throat watching the medals flow at the last Olympics!

It is run as a democracy (now that's provocative) so if you don't like it......do something to change it. Stand for election!

In the greater scheme of things it's a small price to pay as an individual contribtuion to maintain (or trying) our freedom. I believe membership is a mandatory part sailing (oops, sorry, boating, wrong forum)

 

[timbartlett]

You're very worked up over this aren't you?

I'd say "interested" rather than "worked up"

What is your relationship to the RYA - are they a customer of yours or something?

Yes. It's no secret that the RYA have commissioned several books from me (it would be difficult to hide!) nor that I occasionally run training courses on their behalf.
But that has almost nothing to do with why I am generally in favour of the RYA.

I depend on boats of all kinds, from canoes to superyachts for my livelihood, as well as for a hobby. And I believe that the RYA is a major force for good in the preservation of both. (except in respect of canoes: that bit is downto the BCU!)

 

[powerskipper]

a Lot

I would like to hear the opinion of power boaters on whether the RYA offers much to us as a fraternity. To me a lot of lip service is paid by providing courses for power boaters , but I cant but feel that the RYA's heart is not in it. This is also reflected in the RYA magazine where there is much talk of sailing and little talk of powerboating. Does anyone know the split between sailing yacht owners and powerboat owners in terms of the membership?. It sometimes seems to me that the RYA is quite happy to take your £63 per year membership money as a powerboater, and then fervently hopes you don't bother them until it is time to collect next years subs. Do we need a separate body to represent us? - discuss!

but not all is know by the general boating community

 

[gravygraham]

Blimey I didn't realise they're lightening my bank account by 63 quid each year! Every time the RYA mag drops on the mat I scan the pages in mild disappointment jumping from offshore racing article to kiddies wind surfing article etc - and they keep banging on about getting a discount on my next Volvo car - please, I don't want a bleedin Volvo.

That said, I think some of the replies to Adrian's original post serve to remind us well the benefits (tangible and otherwise) of the good work the RYA does for us mobo'ers. As David Jackson said - "so if you don't like it......do something to change it. Stand for election!"

 

[rickp]

As David Jackson said - "so if you don't like it......do something to change it. Stand for election!"

Last time I looked into that, the number of co-opted posts out-numbered the elected posts. Putting aside the fact that few powerboaters are members of 'yacht clubs' (which makes it hard to get widely known enough to be elected), even if you managed to a get elected, you'd be faced with those co-opted from the world of sailing.

Therefore, I didn't think that the organisation reflected my views and I cancelled my membership. When I did so - they weren't even interested in the reason - which is pretty telling for a 'member organisation'.

But that was some time back - maybe its changed. I hope so, but I sincerely doubt it.

 

[Skysail]

Blimey I didn't realise they're lightening my bank account by 63 quid each year!

Personal membership is actually £43 per year....

https://www.rya.org.uk/joinrenew/Pages/JoinRenewForm.aspx

Having experienced the legal help they gave to a member a few years ago it's worth every penny.