RYA vs ICC

[dennism]

I have an RYA Day Skippers Cert, and wondering of the benefits of also getting an ICC? As we aim to leave the EU whether it is now the time to get an ICC for sailing in the EU in future? Is an ICC also required for sailing outside EU, eg in BVI/ Caribbean. Thanks in advance...

 

[johndove]

RYA dayskipper is an RYA qualification. ICC is accepted world wide.

All who sail abroad should have ICC as a requirement. But some countries accept the Day Skipper.

Paper crossover free if a member of the RYA, chargeable if not.

 

[Tranona]

I have an RYA Day Skippers Cert, and wondering of the benefits of also getting an ICC? As we aim to leave the EU whether it is now the time to get an ICC for sailing in the EU in future? Is an ICC also required for sailing outside EU, eg in BVI/ Caribbean. Thanks in advance...

Just read the comprehensive information on the RYA site and then decide if the ICC is appropriate for you.

 

[LadyInBed]

All who sail abroad should have ICC as a requirement.

Where did you dig that up from?
The only place that I know of within the EEC where an ICC (with CEVNI endorsement) is required is on the French canals, and even then it only applies to canals controlled by VNF.

 

[[3889]]

Where did you dig that up from?
The only place that I know of within the EEC where an ICC (with CEVNI endorsement) is required is on the French canals, and even then it only applies to canals controlled by VNF.

Agree that an ICC certainly isn't required everywhere but, technically, it is in Greece though I believe the port police will generally accept a DS or similar.

 

[BrianH]

Where did you dig that up from?
The only place that I know of within the EEC where an ICC (with CEVNI endorsement) is required is on the French canals, and even then it only applies to canals controlled by VNF.

Croatia demands some sort of certificate of competence when clearing into a port of entry, of which the ICC is one. The pdf list is here.

 

[Sandy]

The only place that I know of within the EEC where an ICC (with CEVNI endorsement) is required is on the French canals, and even then it only applies to canals controlled by VNF.

If its free why not get the bit of paper. I am more than happy to provide any official all the bits of paper I have and a cup of tea. If that helps the with decisions made when I get boarded. Given that there is an explanation of the certificate in about 20 languages on the back and I struggle with English that has to be a plus.

 

[Tranona]

Where did you dig that up from?
The only place that I know of within the EEC where an ICC (with CEVNI endorsement) is required is on the French canals, and even then it only applies to canals controlled by VNF.

Also Croatia (as already said), Greece, Spain if you have a MOBO as examples. It is nothing to do with the EU and as I already suggested the RYA site has a detailed description of its background, status and where it might be compulsory or useful to have one.

 

[ex-Gladys]

If its free why not get the bit of paper. I am more than happy to provide any official all the bits of paper I have and a cup of tea. If that helps the with decisions made when I get boarded. Given that there is an explanation of the certificate in about 20 languages on the back and I struggle with English that has to be a plus.

It's only free if you are an RYA Member as I recall...

 

[wooslehunter]

Since no qualifications are required in the UK for leisure boaters, the ICC was introduced to enable UK boaters to go to countries that require qualification.

Hence there are a whole range of ways you can get one & there are a whole different set of categories for the ICC.

From the RYA website you will see that there is a nationality requirement for the RYA to issue an ICC. That's to stop foreign nationals whose countries require their own qualifications from short cutting their own systems by getting an ICC.

 

[alteredoutlook]

But if you want an ICC and you are not a RYA member, the cost is identical to becoming a member. Indeed, if you attempt buying an ICC without membership then the RYA give you free membership. (nb. the free membership lasts one year; the ICC lasts 5 years)

 

[vyv_cox]

Where did you dig that up from?
The only place that I know of within the EEC where an ICC (with CEVNI endorsement) is required is on the French canals, and even then it only applies to canals controlled by VNF.

I have been asked to produce my 'licence' to sail in Germany, Denmark, Belgium, France, Spain, Italy and Greece. It doesn't happen often and I have no idea what would occur if I did not have an ICC, but it is reassuring to carry one. Big problems might occur in the event of something more serious like collisions, strandings, etc.

 

[LadyInBed]

Croatia demands some sort of certificate of competence when clearing into a port of entry, of which the ICC is one. The pdf list is here.

That pdf link says:
"recognized for operating Croatian flag boats and yachts as in the table below"

 

[25931]

Where did you dig that up from?
The only place that I know of within the EEC where an ICC (with CEVNI endorsement) is required is on the French canals, and even then it only applies to canals controlled by VNF.

Some sort of qualification is required in Portugal and on one occasion some years ago my yachmasters wasn't recognized ( literally - he'd never seen one before) so I obtained an ICC to make my life easier.

 

[Mark-1]

The only place that I know of within the EEC where an ICC (with CEVNI endorsement) is required is on the French canals, and even then it only applies to canals controlled by VNF.

Me too. I can't think of anywhere apart from a subset of inland waterways.

 

[macd]

Since no qualifications are required in the UK for leisure boaters, the ICC was introduced to enable UK boaters to go to countries that require qualification.

You make it sound as though the ICC was introduced specifically to serve the interest of UK boaters. It wasn't. It's a UN measure, the forerunner of which was introduced for navigation on the Rhine and Danube. Perhaps you're confusing it with the SSR which, whilst not a qualification, was introduced to facilitate Brits cruising abroad (in France).

 

[Mark-1]

the ICC was introduced to enable UK boaters to go to countries that require qualification.

You got a link to a source for that?

Perhaps you're confusing it with the SSR which, whilst not a qualification, was introduced to facilitate Brits cruising abroad (in France).

You got a link to a source for that? I thought (perhaps wrongly) that the SSR was introduced because because when we signed up to UNCLOS in 1982, the UK took on an obligation to have a register available for all vessels - including small ones. We fullfilled that obligation with the MSA in 1983. Be a hell of a coincidence if we took on a obligation to have a register for Small Vessels and then 1 year later we set up a register for Small Vessels for a completely different reason! I'm prepared to be corrected.

 

[Tranona]

Me too. I can't think of anywhere apart from a subset of inland waterways.

Read the RYA explanation. It is not as simplistic as you make it sound, and as those with extensive experience of boating, particularly in the Med will tell you it is valuable to have. Just because a state has not signed up to the Resolution does not mean that they won't demand evidence of competence, nor does the lack of a formal recognition by the state prevent local officials from demanding evidence.

You have to remember that in many European countries power is devolved much more to local officials and so enforcement (or not) can vary from place to place and from time to time. Greece is a good example. Not signed up to the UN Resolution, but has always had a requirement that skippers need to show evidence of competence for chartering a Greek boat. However enforcement is left to local port police and was very variable. Now much more rigorous as a result of moves to take more control over the use of pleasure boats (both Greek and non Greek). Latest move is that all visiting boats need a cruising permit annually and the nominated skipper on the permit must show competence through an ICC or acceptable equivalent. What is "acceptable" is not laid down (as it is in Croatia) so it makes sense to have an ICC.

There are many other examples of variable requirements such as the need for an ICC for a powerboat in Spain, which few on this forum know about because they don't run big powerboats in Spain.

There is no doubt that the need for evidence of competence is increasing and it makes sense if you are cruising outside the UK to have one.

 

[Tranona]

You got a link to a source for that?



You got a link to a source for that? I thought (perhaps wrongly) that the SSR was introduced because when we signed up to UNCLOS in 1994, the UK took on an obligation to have a register available for all vessels - including small ones. We fullfilled that obligation with the MSA in 1995. Be a hell of a coincidence if we took on a obligation to have a register for Small Vessels and then 1 year later we set up a register for Small Vessels for a completely different reason! I'm prepared to be corrected.

If you have the energy, suggest you go through Hansard to find the debate in Parliament on the subject (as I did many years ago). It was pressure from the French government that resulted in the SSR. The register is not compulsory but just a pragmatic solution specifically for UK boaters who take their boats abroad.

 

[macd]

You got a link to a source for that?



You got a link to a source for that? I thought (perhaps wrongly) that the SSR was introduced because when UNCLOS came into force in 1994, the UK took on an obligation to have a register available for all vessels - including small ones. We fullfilled that obligation with the MSA in 1995. Be a hell of a coincidence if we took on a obligation to have a register for Small Vessels and then 1 year later we set up a register for Small Vessels for a completely different reason! I'm prepared to be corrected.

You do seem to have thought wrongly, at least temporally:
Part III is the Small Ships Register (SSR) which was originally set up under the 1983 Merchant Shipping Act in response to the demand for a cheap and simple means of registering a boat to sail abroad. From 1983 to 1991 the SSR was managed by the RYA, from 1991 to 1996 by the DVLA at Swansea and since 1996 by the Registrar General at Cardiff.

The SSR was instituted in 1983 in response to the requirement of a number of overseas authorities for British owned yachts to be properly registered, and the reluctance of many yacht owners to pay the full registration fee required.

Source (both): RYA