RYA Together on water

[laika]

like many members you ignore everything the organisation does it's a bit rich to suddenly complain when they do one thing you don't like.

I'm getting the impression this is nothing to do with me commenting on the new logo and something to do with a personal bugbear and too much time on your hands.

You're entitled to believe that paying members shouldn't question in discussions the decisions of "leaders" that they should have got to know prior to their being elected.

No, I'm not saying that at all - I'm saying there's structures and communication channels where you can probably actually find the answer to your question if you really care but that asking it on the YBW forums seems like it's probably a passive-aggressive dig.

Err...that's *exactly* what you're saying. That people should refrain from commenting in discussion like this thread and only provide feedback directly to the RYA. Good luck with that. I'll let folks know if I ever get a reply to the question I asked the RYA

 

[rogerthebodger]

To answer some of your points

I used to be a Chartered Engineer as I chose to be a member of a provisional Engineering Institution. For me to join I had to pass set examinations or have acceptable exceptions.

That did not prevent me from working as a Engineer and in fact there are quite a lot of technicians who refer to themselves as an engineer. The major difference is the Chartered Engineer is legally accountable for the work they do and for the work anyone they supervise.

There is a connotational court judgment the says the right of freedom association also includes the right of freedom of non association.

This is based on several judgments in the EU and Canada

There is also requirements in a consumer protection legislation ans the protection of personal information legislation the prevents this type of requirements. These laws are also based on EU legislation. In fact the POPI Act is a requirement of a trade agreement with the EU.

I can understand there being some sporting qualifications for entering a sporting competition and having a driving licence to anter an motor sport vent and a sailing / boating qualification to sail a boat / I dont meed to be a member of motor sport club to drive a car around Silverstone I would have to pay and have any other requirements Silverstone for then to allow ne do do so but I dont need to be a paying member of a Motor sport club.

I don't have to be a member of a football club to have a kick about in my local park.

I can take a RYA course and take the RYA exams but I don't need to be a member of RYA. If I an a member I may get a discount or a discount on any publications but I can still purchase they publications without membership

The constitution of our RYA requires all members (including social and non sailing or non cruising sailor) Rta claim to represent cruising sailors but what do they do foe non completive sailors.

to me its all about freedom of chose and privacy yes governments can only force association by the force of law which private originations like RYA and World Sailing cannot and private should be protected from abuse by private organizations which our consumer protection and Protection of personal information attempts to do

 

[rogerthebodger]

Total rubbish.

Sailing and Motorboating, in the UK, can be-and is-accessed by anyone who has a boat.

We have little regulation, training and licencing requirements, compulsory insurance or qualification.

Only sailing in competition is it required to belong to an accepted National Body. Not required at all for leisure sailors.

Which is the accepted norm in almost all International sport, especially Motorsport.

I would suggest Competition Sailing has far fewer participants than leisure sailing.

As someone who has taken a National Motorsports Governing Body to task and changed their obstructive philosophy, I like to think I have some experience of the matter.

This is where the major difference between the UK is at the moment and where we are at present

There are far fewer sailors where I live as I know a number rof people who started especially those later in life give up due to the interference by the state and national federations

I used to take part in some club motor sport but noting al notional level I was a member of the MG car club even I could not afford an MG I had a tuned mini

Last statement Good for you I an doing the same thing with SA Sailing in South Africa.

 

[jane444blue]

What is this all about?

Exactly, could not make sense of it, ie what it means

 

[ylop]

Roger - I don’t really follow your post. Some of it I think is just typos but some of it still seems rambling even if I assume what you meant to write.

If I can summarise: your objection to the RYA working on a strategy to be more inclusive is that an equivalent organisation in a different country have a policy that everyone who is a member of an affiliate club must also be a member of the parent organisation, and you believe that interferes with your right not to join an association, even though there is no requirement to join a club at all unless you want to race under the World Sailing rules. Accordingly it somehow infringes on your European Convention rights even though the RYA is not a state authority, you don’t seem to live in a European country and the approach you mention is not the RYA’s approach.

By definition the RYA will be unable to solve the paradox of being more inclusive of people who don’t want to be members unless of course they are trying to make boating in general, rather than membership specifically be more inclusive! It is my understanding from what little I know of the strategy that that is exactly their intention (albeit probably for different reasons).

 

[The Q]

I do wonder where some of you live.
Family membership at my club for this year £150
Number of members from African descendancy about the same as the county, 1%
Number of members from Asian descendancy is well above the counties 2.1%
Numbers of LGBTQ whatever, who knows? we don't care, we don't ask.

Food,
hog roasts discriminate against Jews and Muslims.
Beef burgers discriminate against Hindus
Meat discriminate against vegans
Vegetables discriminate against meat eaters.
Alcohol discriminate against teetotallers
Tea and coffee discriminate against boozers.

If they don't like what's on for food they either don't come or bring their own...

 

[lustyd]

hog roasts discriminate against Jews and Muslims.

You can have a hog roast, just make a suitable alternative available and ensure you advertise as such

If they don't like what's on for food they either don't come or bring their own...

This is literally the problem others were describing, and is very exclusionary

 

[The Q]

You can have a hog roast, just make a suitable alternative available and ensure you advertise as such

This is literally the problem others were describing, and is very exclusionary

We do,
the chilli beef night during the up coming regatta week includes vegetarian and other options.
The fish and chips night includes sausage and vegetarian options
The bring a plate night it's up to you to bring what to share,
The barbeques are always available..

 

[The Q]

The " big White Clubs" are mostly on the south coast.
Devon is, 96.4% White, 1.5% Asian, 1.4% mixed, 0.3% Black
Dorset is 97.1 percent white, 1.2 % mixed, 0.3% Black.
Hampshire is, 92.6% White, 3.8% Asian, 1.9% mixed , 1% Black
Isle of Wight is 97% white, 1.1% Asian, the rest small minority groups each much less than 1%
Sussex is, 94% white, mixed 2.3%, Asian 2.1%, Black 0.2 %


You can't recruit people to clubs who don't exist. Minorities are minorities.

 

[ylop]

You can't recruit people to clubs who don't exist. Minorities are minorities.

Where did anyone suggest you should?

How’s the gender split?
How is the distribution of socio ecconomic backgrounds of the membership?
How is the “sailing family history” v “first generation sailors”?

£150 for family membership sounds fairly good (certainly it’s cheaper than many, but what does it include?) but if you struggle with money £150 (probably in one lump sum) is a big hit. If sailing is your family’s only interest then even if you are on minimum wage you might be able to prioritise that, but what if you are fairly new, have your kids ever started something and then gone off it after a few months?

Now perhaps your club is already at the pinnacle of inclusivity - do you think every other club is?

 

[[194224]]

Deleted, flames already have sufficient oxygen.

 

[jac]

Where did anyone suggest you should?

How’s the gender split?
How is the distribution of socio ecconomic backgrounds of the membership?
How is the “sailing family history” v “first generation sailors”?

£150 for family membership sounds fairly good (certainly it’s cheaper than many, but what does it include?) but if you struggle with money £150 (probably in one lump sum) is a big hit. If sailing is your family’s only interest then even if you are on minimum wage you might be able to prioritise that, but what if you are fairly new, have your kids ever started something and then gone off it after a few months?

Now perhaps your club is already at the pinnacle of inclusivity - do you think every other club is?

O think the 2nd and 3rd points there are key. You need some disposable income to sail. Even if it is just joining a club and sailing club dinghies. It may be the same as joining a local sundayt league football club but it still takes money. And how else are people to get in to the sport if someone doing it already doesn't start them. Lots of clubs do trail days / open days but much pf that doesn't then translate.

My own daughters tale illustrates it well

Family history of sailing, Kids enjoy sailing, begged to do Greek flotilla and want to go again, passed Level 4 Dinghy at local Andrew Simpson centre asked for a dinghy and got one. I was happy to take them ( it;s 10 minutes away!) In theory - they had all the advantages, all the barriers removed and should be active dinghy sailors. In practice, they sailed a few times at that club and then gave up - we sold the dinghy but they are still happy to sail on a yacht.

The issue was that there is one pathway in clubs for kids - join young ( the clubs young oppie club seemed popular) - move into racing and then race with the grown ups ( or youths if enough of them.) There is no pathway for people joining in early teens, being good enough for L4 but not really race ready. They fall between two stools - Those that have outgorwn optimists but still need some training / coaching / fun activities as lets face it - struggling around a course, being last, being shouted at as you don't know the rules is no fun.

Now imagine that situation for a kid whose parents can't help, aren't trying to encourage them into sailing anyway. No wonder that the young members tend to be related to those who have done it before and are active. Clubs need to ensure that there are pathways that apply to anyone to get them to becoming established sailors.

 

[Poignard]

 

[mjcoon]

Where were the RYA vis a vis these preposterous 'eco' moorings and the threat of being banned from many popular anchorages because of the alleged and poorly understood effect of anchors on a seaweed which does not appear in need of protection? When asked to assist there was tumbleweed.

Seaweed is very different from seagrass (algae vs flowering plant). So how much have you read up about it?

 

[oldgit]

I don't think you understand inclusion. If you are a wheelchair user, not going to a beach may not be your choice. I have to say that the beaches I see are otherwise a fairly diverse mix of fat, thin, pale, tanned, burned, young, old, male, female, noisy, quiet etc. Depending on the beach it might be full of single parents who got there on the bus eeking out their benefits to entertain the kids during the school holidays, full of middle class kids with their own surf boards, or final salary pensioners walking their dogs. But beaches are public access, if the main way to access a beach involved joining a club, going on a training course etc and the people found on beaches were predominantly male, middle class, middle-aged you'd start to wonder if there was some bias involved that was stopping inclusion. If you found that people who use beaches were broader than that but the ones who join the beach users association were all from the same mould you might be even more concerned. The fact that nobody is ever turned away doesn't make you inclusive.

The beach at The Leas on the Isle of Sheppey was once frequently used by the Hasidic community, alas no more .

 

[oldgit]

I do wonder where some of you live.
Family membership at my club for this year £150
Number of members from African descendancy about the same as the county, 1%
Number of members from Asian descendancy is well above the counties 2.1%
Numbers of LGBTQ whatever, who knows? we don't care, we don't ask.

Food,
hog roasts discriminate against Jews and Muslims.
Beef burgers discriminate against Hindus
Meat discriminate against vegans
Vegetables discriminate against meat eaters.
Alcohol discriminate against teetotallers
Tea and coffee discriminate against boozers.

If they don't like what's on for food they either don't come or bring their own...

"they" have also have the temerity to volunteer for committees and change things ?

 

[The Q]

Anyone can volunteer to go on committee, in fact a mere mention of it, everyone else steps back and you're extremely likely to be on.

Where did anyone suggest you should?

How’s the gender split?

Of the bigger more expensive sizes of boat probably 80% in favour of male. Though saying that the class I was sailing in this weekend was won by a lady. ( Boat cost in that fleet probably £6000 for a old one to £40,000 for a new one, my boat £2000, I built it myself)
When you get to the juniors, in dinghies the males out number the females, just, there are some very good female sailers in that fleet.
We've had several female Commodores over the years. Having worked their way up through committee and the lesser officer of the club positions.

How is the distribution of socio ecconomic backgrounds of the membership?

Hmm my income this year? £5,000 I retired at Christmas and the state pension won't kick in till next Christmas, my final salary was about the same as the starting salary of a teacher, after i had a 48 year career with a degree working in calibration maintenance and repair of radar and test equipment. That pension will also arrive next Christmas but I don't know how much yet.
I sail in the winter with a white van man working for FedEx ( his boat).
We have Car mechanics , garage owners, boat yard workers, sail maker employees, boat yard owners, nurses, paramedics, doctors, teachers, farming employees, farmers and a tunneling engineer. They're just the jobs I know of..
There must be many other routine jobs of our members before it ranges up to a couple of international financial people who of course have the biggest and best sailing boats with motorboats to support them.

How is the “sailing family history” v “first generation sailors”?

It is a local club and many have a family history of membership since first formal foundation in 1910, though there are records of racing for many years before that. 20 miles away there's records of racing in 1577....( Not a club though)
However many like myself have no family history with sailing unless you count a couple of merchant seaman around WW1.
The number of first timers is increasing, the club started a sailing school 15 years ago, the children with history start, bringing in many more friends without a history of sailing , the parents of course sit around waiting, then get bored and learn to sail themselves or take rescue boat training or operate the Tea bar.
The sailing school is of course run by qualified volunteers and costs are kept as low as possible.

 

[rotrax]

First Mate and I belong to several clubs. We shall not renew with our favourite as it is in Wellington NZ and it is unlikely we will visit NZ again.

The others are the Portsmouth Offshore Group, the RNSA, the Hornet Sailing Club and the Arun Yacht Club.

New members of the last one, it is dead opposite our permanent berth in Littlehampton. So far, a great club with plenty of social events and nice members.

A long time ago I was tasked with finding a suitable venue for an annual dinner during a gathering of our winter talks club, the now defunct 'White Horse Cruising Club'.

We met in Cowes Yacht Haven and took our lovely meal in the Captains room of the Royal Corinthian YC.

Another club asked me how I got the venue. I said "I knocked on the door, asked to see a commitee member and told them what we required".

The RC was a lovely venue and the members went out of their way to ask if everything was to our satisfaction. It was.

Moral of this story - if you dont ask, you dont get!