RYA Survey To Shape Future Direction
- Thread starter RunAgroundHard
- Start date
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
rotrax
Well-Known Member
IMHO, the RYA should stick to being the Governing Body of UK Watersports. Cruising is NOT a sport IMHO, so should be outside their remit.
The CA, for example, is far better placed to look after the interests of Cruising boaters.
The CA, for example, is far better placed to look after the interests of Cruising boaters.
flaming
Well-Known Member
Oh, is it the CA dayskipper, yachtmaster etc? I hadn't realised...
The RYA are of course completely embedded in cruising through their training schools.
And things like their templates for private boat sales, advice on liens, boat theft, inheriting a boat etc ectc are extremely useful for those who need them. That you don't need their help or advice in your circumstances doesn't mean that what they do offer isn't extremely useful. In a way, I think that it's one of the PR issues that they face with cruisers. Most of their services to non-racers are necessarily geared towards those who are starting out. Getting training, how to buy a boat etc. Once someone is well immersed into sailing, what they offer is less often required.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
I disagree - and am a member of both.
The CA does a good job, but is limited by a relatively small membership (and many/most keep their boats in the Baltic or Mediterranean rather than the UK).
We need the RYA to stand up for our rights - ideally alongside the CA. And increasingly the RYA, CA and others do collaborate well together to achieve much better outcomes.
Areas where both organisations have worked to influence have included Brexit, VAT, border systems, light dues, rules on “dangerous watercraft”/PwCs, red diesel, HVO, paper charts withdrawal, electronic navigation etc.
PS. I should declare an interest as I am a volunteer with both CA and RYA trying to assist cruising yachters in some of these areas
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
We used to have a cruising association and a yacht racing association, and both would serve their section quite well
Cruising sailor but they were then joined and became one called south African sailing but failed IMHO to address the needs of the cruising only sailor the association has failed totally to address the needs of the pure recitational sailor. like me
SA sailing would require all members of affiliated cubs to pay the association a subscription even if they did not partake in the sport of sailing which caused a lot of discontent amongst the recreational only sailors only such that the clubs I am involved with voted to cancel the subscription and the association retaliated with removing any benefits from the club members rather than to improve any services to the cruising sailors.
My conclusions is that SAS is only interested in the money rather than supporting all sailors
Cruising sailor but they were then joined and became one called south African sailing but failed IMHO to address the needs of the cruising only sailor the association has failed totally to address the needs of the pure recitational sailor. like me
SA sailing would require all members of affiliated cubs to pay the association a subscription even if they did not partake in the sport of sailing which caused a lot of discontent amongst the recreational only sailors only such that the clubs I am involved with voted to cancel the subscription and the association retaliated with removing any benefits from the club members rather than to improve any services to the cruising sailors.
My conclusions is that SAS is only interested in the money rather than supporting all sailors
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
I think I agree. What cruisers need is to be left alone.
I also think the RYA representing training establishments as well as speaking for Cruising Sailors is a conflict of interests. Essentially the RYA has a product to sell and they're beholden to the training centres. The CA have no reason to gold plate requirements for quals in their advice, the RYA have every reason to.
In fact there's also a conflict between racing and cruising. Racers want more people to race against, cruisers need fewer people cluttering up anchorages and booking up Marinas on sunny weekends. So should the RYA be encouraging people into the sport for racers or pulling up the drawbridge for cruisers? They can't sensibly do both.
The RYA is a business, and it's beholden to other businesses. The CA is a club with its members interests at heart.
Biggles Wader
Well-Known Member
The problem here is that for cruisers to be "left alone" they need to mobilise political clout in order to keep the authorities off their grass and the CA does not have it or aspire to having it. There is always someone itching to impose their regulations on others unless those others can fight them off. That currently seems to be the RYA's domain even if we disagree with some of their other activities and policies.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
But can you list any successes? Not much use if they never achieve any useful outcomes.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Lots of positive outcomes - or in some cases, less bad outcomes (like Brexit VAT and Schengen when the RYA, CA and government officials hands were tied by what was decreed in our politicians “deal” they left us with.)
But busy now - doing priority voluntary stuff - but if have time will add some more.
But frankly no list of successes by RYA/CA will satisfy the arm chair moaning minnies - most of whom don’t do anything directly to help but quick to complain.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Is there a regulation the RYA have fought off? It feels to me more like they embrace regulations and then profit from them, often offering to manage them and charge for them. A couple of decades ago nobody needed an ICC. Then the RYA took control, monetized it, and now I need one to charter in Greece renewed every five years with the RYA taking the money. I doubt Greece would have demanded ICCs from UK sailors if many people hadn’t already bought them, since that would have killed UK charter sales in Greece. It feels like Greece only made it compulsory once most visitors already held one.
Either way, it's a classic conflict of interest. How hard did the RYA fight compulsory ICCs when they get recurring income from them? And why did they come up with five‑year renewal? That isn't required by the rules. That's a classic case where the RYA's interests conflict with cruising sailors.
Feels to me like the RYA turned ICCs into a cash cow, now Greece demands them and sailors pay.
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
With VAT didn't the RYA (with help from HMRC) turn VAT from a non-issue for many into a massive panic?
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
IMO it does no harm if the RYA back-up and support the efforts of the CA as I agree, the CA is better placed to determine the wants and needs of cruisers.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
No that was the vote in 2016 or so that made VAT a huge issue for many Uk boat buyers, owners and sellers.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Sorry but that is complete nonsense. Please give any evidence of the RYA pushing for extra regulations? Not sure you can.
It is laughable to suggest that the RYA is responsible for countries like Greece asking you for an ICC to charter. The hint is in the country name - it is Greek rules!! Please give evidence for your assertion that RYa is responsible for Greek ICC rules or offer them an apology.
However the RYA training centres and processes made getting my ICC quick and simple, ahead of a Croatian charter.
Caer Urfa
Well-Known Member
Started to fill in the survey then stopped as what has my religion to do with sailing or if I am male/female Heterosexual or Straight etc or am I black/ white typical RYA very poor formulated survey in my opinion and who really wants this information !
Biggles Wader
Well-Known Member
But we don't need an ICC to take a boat out( a couple of decades ago or now) and that is the point. We have very few regulations compared to most other countries and that is in part thanks to political lobbying by the RYA. Even I would not suggest the RYA can prevent the Greeks from requiring qualifications!
RunAgroundHard
Well-Known Member
For goodness sake get over your indignation. You can chose to not answer, there is an option. To overcome barriers to exclusion, understanding the demographics is important .
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
No, but they can make it feasible. If nobody in the UK was qualified the Greeks would have to choose between having no UK charter trade or allowing people to charter with no quals as they always had.
The point where the local Port Authorities could practically make it compulsory was the point where large numbers of people already had it.
And again there's still a conflict of interests. If you think the RYA are on the side of the Yachtsman over Regulations on quals then they are not on the side of "themselves" (who would benefit from regular renewals) or the training centres who benefit from more people needing quals. So they have to be failing to act for someone in this equation.
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Mark-1
Well-Known Member
I must confess I declined all of those questions. Sailing should be open for all and totally blind to sex and colour.