RYA Says we can go sailing - but only with our household.

[Tomaret]

Just posted by CHC, I read it we are good to go (for now...):

Recreational boating and other water use
The Government has advised that from Wednesday 13 May, unlimited outdoor activity will be permitted in England. It is unclear whether this includes any, or all forms of boating, or something in between. The Department of Culture, Media and Sport have undertaken to clarify the position this week.

Government has also advised that people would be permitted to travel to other destinations in order to exercise, but that any activity will still need to be alone or with members of a single household and social distancing must be followed at all times.

Chichester Harbour remains open to vessels operating within government guidance.

It is incumbent on the Conservancy and other operators of marine facilities in Chichester Harbour to look after the safety of users and importantly the safety of their staff. In anticipation of a return to some form of recreational boating (subject to DCMS advice) the Conservancy have put in place the following measures and advice:

• Please follow social distancing guidance (stay 2 metres apart where possible).
• Conservancy jetties at Itchenor and Emsworth are marked with direction of travel and 2m spacing on the ‘T’ Head.
• Please wash your hands regularly.
• Visitor facilities will not be available for overnight stays, and no rafting.
• Please confirm that any facilities you intend to travel to are open and have agreed to receive you, both in Chichester Harbour and beyond.
• Maintenance piles are not available.
• Rescues pose a risk to both the casualty and the rescuer and there is likely to be reduced rescue response capacity in the Harbour. Please ensure that your craft is well maintained and that you sail within the limits of your abilities.
• If social distancing requirements cannot be maintained facilities may need more intrusive management or be closed

Please continue take action to prevent the potential spread of infection. The latest guidance from the UK Government can be found here.

While we await further government guidance, we are content for harbour users to take exercise on the water in kayaks, paddleboards and the like, and that the owners of vessels on moorings can access them to confirm their safety.

Similar (and obviously co-ordinated) response from QHM Portsmouth, but with a slightly more disapproving tone. Its almost as though they’d like to stop us but don’t think that they can. one wonders what guidance the Department of Culture etc will give. It will be contrary to established policy if it is a model of clarity.

 

[Lucky Duck]

Solent harbour authorities - QHM, Portsmouth, Cowes Harbour Commission, and Hamble Harbour Master - were apparently meeting today to agree a co-ordinated response to the changes that the Government has announced, and to try to fill in the gaps. It’s now past close of business and none of them have provided updated guidance. They don’t seem quite so keen to follow RYA guidance now as they were in late March. Are Harbour authorities elsewhere in England being any more proactive?

The sound of dragging feet is audible from my garden

I have two possible theories, one is that they have all been caught out by Sunday's announcement and need to take staff off furlough and the like. The other ones is somewhat less charitable.

 

[chrisharris]

Similar (and obviously co-ordinated) response from QHM Portsmouth, but with a slightly more disapproving tone. Its almost as though they’d like to stop us but don’t think that they can. one wonders what guidance the Department of Culture etc will give. It will be contrary to established policy if it is a model of clarity.

Yes, I do have a horrible feeling that there might be an unfortunate clarification.......

 

[pvb]

at the moment you would get a £100 pound fine on the way out,and a £200 fine on the way back in if leaving the marina in most places where boating is restricted by the harbour authority

So you're saying that the harbour authority can over-rule national guidance?

 

[atol]

So you're saying that the harbour authority can over-rule national guidance?

i would guess untill the notices to mariners ban on recreational boating is lifted then the port authority has precedence on ship movements in their juristriction.
you could give it a try and report back,the coast guard and police have been patroling falmouth harbour for the last few weeks

 

[pvb]

i would guess untill the notices to mariners ban on recreational boating is lifted then the port authority has precedence on ship movements in their juristriction

OK, you said earlier that "you would get a £100 pound fine on the way out,and a £200 fine on the way back in if leaving the marina in most places where boating is restricted by the harbour authority". So who would fine me? And on what basis?

 

[atol]

OK, you said earlier that "you would get a £100 pound fine on the way out,and a £200 fine on the way back in if leaving the marina in most places where boating is restricted by the harbour authority". So who would fine me? And on what basis?

the coast guard and police have been patroling falmouth harbour for the last few weeks.....advising boaters,i guess repeat offenders could have gotten fines had they not heeded police advice

 

[pvb]

the coast guard and police have been patroling falmouth harbour for the last few weeks.....advising boaters,i guess repeat offenders could have gotten fines had they not heeded police advice

And on what basis can "police advice" contradict what the government has said? I'm genuinely confused by your adamance. Perhaps, as you're in Cornwall, you're part of the "keep the city folk out of our land" brigade.

 

[Stork_III]

OK, you said earlier that "you would get a £100 pound fine on the way out,and a £200 fine on the way back in if leaving the marina in most places where boating is restricted by the harbour authority". So who would fine me? And on what basis?

Here is the legal amendment to the regulations, my reading is no boat access or use if it is not in a public open space. Most marinas are not.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/500/pdfs/uksi_20200500_en.pdf

New sub clause (ba) "ba) to visit a public open space for the purposes of open-air recreation to promote their physical or mental health or emotional wellbeing— (i) alone, (ii) with one or more members of their household, or (iii) with one member of another household;”; "

Public open space defined as "5) For the purposes of paragraph (2)(ba), “public open space” includes

(a) land laid out as a public garden or used for the purpose of recreation by members of the public;
(b) land which is “open country” as defined in section 59(2) of the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949(a), as read with section 16 of the Countryside Act 1968(b);
(c) land which is “access land” for the purposes of Part 1 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000(c) (see section 1(1) of that Act(d)). "

 

[MJWF]

A harbour authorities duty is to run the harbour, not to take a position on how to most effectively manage a pandemic. With that in mind any harbour authority who fails to permit the open operation of their facilities when the government has made clear that open air activities are permitted should be open to a judicial review. They dont need explicit clarification from the government. Any lawyers on here want to take the case?

 

[atol]

And on what basis can "police advice" contradict what the government has said? I'm genuinely confused by your adamance. Perhaps, as you're in Cornwall, you're part of the "keep the city folk out of our land" brigade.

STATEMENT RE RECREATIONAL BOATING ACTIVITIES

Despite reports that some recreational boating activities can re-start from tomorrow as part of the relaxation of lockdown measures, we have received no confirmation of this from Industry Trade Associations. There was no specific mention of recreational boating in the Government guidance issued yesterday and therefore the situation is unclear. We understand that clarification on watersports and boating activities is expected from the Department of Culture, Media and Sport in the next few days. We will be studying this carefully when it is received and updating our advice accordingly. In the meantime, our Port Notice Number 8 to mariners remains extant.
Falmouth Harbour Commissioners | A Trust Port

https://www.falmouthharbour.co.uk/w...RS-0820-Compliance-with-COVID-19-measures.pdf

PORT NOTICE TO MARINERS NO. 08 OF 2020 Compliance with COVID-19 Measures NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that restrictions have been introduced for recreational craft owners following the implementation of the Government control measures on 23rd March 2020. The use of recreational craft is not considered an essential activity and therefore operators of facilities such as pontoons, moorings and slipways should keep these closed to recreational craft so far as is possible until the current measures are rescinded. Skippers of recreational vessels arriving from abroad and putting into Falmouth Harbour out of necessity should make contact with their intended berth provider prior to entry into the harbour and comply with their instructions in respect of submitting health declarations and taking the necessary distancing measures after arrival. Operation of facilities in support of commercial craft are not affected by the current measures.

 

[Sharky34]

Why not??

Well tell us when anything actually happens, cos it ain't yet.

 

[Hacker]

"keep the city folk out of our land" brigade

Absolutely that. Under normal circumstances we have 9 ITU beds in Cornwall. There is no need for those from “up country” to disregard the travel restrictions and potentially cause an increase in CV19 down here. When it’s all over we will welcome them back (well some of them)

 

[Mark-1]

Yes, I do have a horrible feeling that there might be an unfortunate clarification.......

This. I don't doubt sailing is an acceptable exercise. I equally suspect an official put on the spot might play it safe and say no, even if that contradicts the law.

 

[Mark-1]

There was no specific mention of recreational boating in the Government guidance issued yesterday and therefore the situation is unclear.

There was no specific mention of recreational boating in the Government guidance issued yesterday and therefore it is allowed along with everything else.

 

[northwind]

Here is the legal amendment to the regulations, my reading is no boat access or use if it is not in a public open space. Most marinas are not.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/500/pdfs/uksi_20200500_en.pdf

New sub clause (ba) "ba) to visit a public open space for the purposes of open-air recreation to promote their physical or mental health or emotional wellbeing— (i) alone, (ii) with one or more members of their household, or (iii) with one member of another household;”; "

Public open space defined as "5) For the purposes of paragraph (2)(ba), “public open space” includes

(a) land laid out as a public garden or used for the purpose of recreation by members of the public;
(b) land which is “open country” as defined in section 59(2) of the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949(a), as read with section 16 of the Countryside Act 1968(b);
(c) land which is “access land” for the purposes of Part 1 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000(c) (see section 1(1) of that Act(d)). "

You are allowed to play golf, it was explicitly mentioned, and most golf courses are private land...

 

[atol]

There was no specific mention of recreational boating in the Government guidance issued yesterday and therefore it is allowed along with everything else.

tell that to the coast guard/border force,who are armed,who are currently patroling the harbour,accompanied by police officers onboard their rib.

one thing i learnt in africa was respect,and to call the man with a machine gun ......SIR!

 

[Mark-1]

You are allowed to play golf, it was explicitly mentioned, and most golf courses are private land...

...and the sea is a public open space. Sailing a boat on the sea is no different to riding a bike on Bridleway on a Hill AFAICT.

 

[longjohnsilver]

i would guess untill the notices to mariners ban on recreational boating is lifted then the port authority has precedence on ship movements in their juristriction.
you could give it a try and report back,the coast guard and police have been patroling falmouth harbour for the last few weeks

The long room at Plymouth have said leisure responsible boating is permitted. Sutton harbour say no overnight stays, so what’s to stop you anchoring at Cawsands or Dandy Hole?

 

[longjohnsilver]

tell that to the coast guard/border force,who are armed,who are currently patroling the harbour,accompanied by police officers onboard their rib.

one thing i learnt in africa was respect,and to call the man with a machine gun ......SIR!

Yeah, but we’re not in Africa. If a military policeman were to shoot you in the UK for no other reason than legally being on your own boat, all hell would break loose.