RYA Rules - OK

[jimi]

Not just semantics

Personally I find the use of Royal a little bit offensive with its connotations of class etc. Whilst I have every respect for Anne herself and her workrate, I find the institution of Royalty and the class structure devalued, outdated and inappropriate to the modern age. The perception of most people is that any association with the word "royal" in it is that it is a class thing, if that perception is to change then I believe that the word "Royal" has to go. All IMHO of course ... talking of Royalty can't the Queen keep TonyB in check? Or this that pretence of a contitutional check all it is .. a sham perpetuated to reinforce the power and position of the elected dictator?

 

[kimhollamby]

Re: Not just semantics

Iain,

To clarify the numbers I have posted elsewhere here are for individual personal members, not yacht club affiliates. Interesting point; I've never seen a number for those who belong to an affiliate but don't have personal membership - suspect RYA doesn't know because it would have to de-dupe info it hasn't got.

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[kimhollamby]

Re: Some numbers

I don't know if any of that was researched with the McKinsey report. I presume the RYA could be doing an exit poll because it holds the data. Perhaps it has/is/will.

Think we've got a fair feel for it here from those who have left, although the sample is too small to be meaningful. Bottom line is I don't believe that people are leaving in any kind of significant number; it wouldn't being the growth it has if that was happening. But, as someone has already pointed out, an organisation the size of the RYA will always struggle to please every member. Even if it makes changes to address some of the complaints here (many of which boil down to language employed and the perception of remoteness of decision making by other members and employees) then it is likely to disaffect others perhaps.


kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[Aeolus_IV]

Re: Not just semantics

The numbers do have to be understood clearly before anything is made of them - at one point I belonged to the RYA three times through various different routes.

Jeff.

 

[kimhollamby]

I\'m not able to spin your reasons for joining

Why should you join? Would be a big presumption on my part to attempt that. How about telling you why I am still a member? Couple of reasons:

1) when I visit the US many boatowners there are amused by 'our RYA' and the politics surrounding it. But I also bump into lots of individual sea schools doing individual courses that are not co-ordinated. The freedom of that sounds fun but choosing a school must be interesting (not only quality of people/boats as here but also syllabus) and what value the piece of paper hung on the wall afterwards (or in my case, lost somewhere in the filing)? I support the RYA as a self-interested investment in the courses I have taken under its auspices and any that I might want to take in the future.

2) I know enough of the work of the RYA in representing the things that I personally hold dear that I would rather have them there than not and believe it fair to pay a subscription to achieve representation by a national body with some momentum.

That's it really, enough to let my DD run anyway. I don't agree with every decision, but it would be odd if it did. Only scan read the mag, rarely check the website, always take six months to put new membership card in wallet, haven't tried Bishop Skinner to see what discount I would get, I almost always forget to take up my free book allocation and I'd love to claim that I feel virtuous helping to support Olympic squad but, as much as I admire their efforts I've never mentally connected my subscription with their training.

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[Iota]

Re: I\'m not able to spin your reasons for joining

Fair reply but not compelling enough for me, thanks though for the thinking and typing time to reply. i suspect that it is the lack of compelling reasons that many of us who did not renew a while ago do not today.

Courtesy is an iota but makes the world go round

 

[kimhollamby]

Numbers again

Jeff,

Yes, agree. That's why I've personally only tended to take into account the Personal Membership figures. That figure gives a bottom line of just under 100,000 and beyond that it is obvious that it has some influence through clubs which is much harder to quantify.

A quick search around the Internet revealed, for instance, that the RSPB claims in excess of 1m members. The Caravan Club has 850,000 members. Quite how you equate that kind of statistic with boating becomes more interesting again!

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[Twister_Ken]

Protecting your YM status

Kim, seems that one of your two reasons for being an RYA member is to protect the status of your various certificates.

This has always struck me as a major problem with the RYA - it is a volunteer, unregulated organisation issuing certificates which are accepted as proof-of-competency by various states and their organs.

I wonder how this would stand up if ever challenged, perhaps following a serious accident, or by a country with a vested interest in promoting its own qualification system.

Much as I hate to say this, surely the YM scheme ought to be part of a quasi-government funtion (like the DVLA for driving) if it is to be accepted elsewhere as credible when push comes to shove.

 

[kimhollamby]

Re: Protecting your YM status

Full Yachtmaster and CoastaL Skipper qualification is under the auspices of government. And I believe there has been some degree of government sign-off in ICC although I'd need to check that. Radio tickets under auspices of RA. Training process therefore not entirely unregulated.

Other courses are purely voluntary, although I would imagine the MCA had some kind of sign-off on sea survival and first aid as both are required for commercial endoresement.

DVLA act as an agency, do they not, as we've discovered with boat registration. I suspect the RYA's remit is not that much different in terms of full YM/CS. Cannot imagine a government quango would either like to get involved with a voluntary scheme or run one with so many courses.

What defence is a ticket anyway as far as the amateur is concerned? I don't know but if an accident happens I would imagine verdict would be based far more on actions on the day and, quite likely, experience, than whether the courses taken had been regulated by government or not. Otherwise how do you explain, for example, the vast numbers of private companies living off of H and S training these days?

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[Shanty]

Re: Protecting your YM status

Been doing some thinking about this (well there's a first time for everything).

Some aspects of water-borne activities need governing (e.g. racing, training)

Water-borne activities, and those indulging in them need to be represented to various government bodies, quangos, and similar manifestations of man's inhumanity to man.

A governing body needs to maintain some distance from those it governs. A representitive body is only effective if it is clearly of those it represents.

A single organisation will find it very, very difficult to be in two places at once.
Maybe we need two RYAs?

 

[alant]

One easy way to get a Blue Ensign as well apparently,

 

[bigmart]

There are major problems here. Cruising people. by their nature, do not like to be organised.

The most important point that we, as cruising boaters, must recognise is that we need a representative body to fend off the advances of an over regulatory Government.

Like it or like it not, the RYA, or whatever else you might have them called, (personally, as a basic working class bloke, the name RYA works for me. I don't feel threatened by so called toffs. My experience is that those who look down on me, have further to fall, & land with a satisfying crunch whenever they do.) are ideally placed to do this. They are already recognised by Government & have the largest membership of any body that might be called so to do.

The problem is that many of us cruising boaters do not feel that we get value for money from the RYA. The plain simple facts are that the RYA must get its act together & either tell us better how it serves us, ( the RYA Cruising web page is a good example of typically poor service to the cruising boater. I am sure there are many more) or it had better give us the service we pay for & deserve.

At the end of the day we are, or can be, the membership of the RYA & we had better change it.

A load of bickering & splitting up into smaller groups will only play into the hands of those who seek to regulate us.

Lets get our act together.

Martin