RYA - lost the plot?

VO5 said:
Why do you think this thread has gone on and on with more than 370 posts ?
Easy....
Nearly everybody here is discontented with some or other aspect of your precious RYA....but somehow are not able to accurately pinpoint the flaw. :D
Whereas the ladies, who do not profess anything, are armed with intuitive input, and as a consequence, are able to pinpoint the flaw straight away identifying the whole thing as Mickey Mouse. That is why you get the response that you do.:D
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The RYA isn't perfect and it's not my 'precious RYA' either. I can see its faults but what organisation isn't without fault?

What ladies are you referring to?

If the whole thing was Mickey Mouse why is the YM scheme recognised all over the world and with medical and STCW etc accepted as a qualification to be a commercial skipper up to 200 tonnes etc. I can see the faults but you appear to have an axe to grind. Troll is another word that comes to mind with your several vague and disconnected provocative taunts.
 
john_morris_uk said:
The RYA isn't perfect and it's not my 'precious RYA' either. I can see its faults but what organisation isn't without fault?

What ladies are you referring to?

If the whole thing was Mickey Mouse why is the YM scheme recognised all over the world and with medical and STCW etc accepted as a qualification to be a commercial skipper up to 200 tonnes etc. I can see the faults but you appear to have an axe to grind. Troll is another word that comes to mind with your several vague and disconnected provocative taunts.
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Provocative taunts ? You started this saying I was in a bubble you were prodding.
I am very far from being in a bubble, I assure you.
You asked a question - I gave you the absolutely correct answers.

To say it is not perfect must be the understatement of all time.
It is Mickey Mouse and everybody knows it, but very few have the balls to stand up and say it.
It should be scrapped and replaced with a serious organisation befitting the United Kingdom's seafaring heritage.
 
The RYA is not staffed with fools. They see qualifications (and inevitably) compulsory qualifications as being one of the primary means of funding the organisation.

For 2015
Income
Subs and donations 4.4M
Goods and Services 5.9M
Events and Coaching 1.2M
Grants 2.5M
World Class grants 6.3

Total Income 20.7M, on which they pay only 90K Tax. They are not fools... Though they are shy about the costs and benefits of purely the qualifications and training streams.

As I indicated previously, the payment of instructors and their expenses needs review. You cannot pay people peanuts for a serious job which determines whether the candidates can earn a qualified living from boating if you say that the pay reflects the pleasure of doing the job. That's what the Houghton (?) committee decided in 1966 when teachers' salaries were reviewed. The committee said that you should not pay low salaries because of the vocational aspect of the profession, so my salary went from £650 a year to over £1000 . OK, we did get the long summer holiday, but JM is clearly destined to be chained to the galley while Mrs JM deals with staff/pupil ratios, children at risk, and the everlasting squabbles in the Parent's Association on her laptop in the sun, as they trundle gently on autopilot along the rias.

The RYA is a luxury organisation. It sees its position as the sole certificating authority in the UK, and with presence overseas, as being its by right, and I cannot blame them for protecting the investment in time and people that they have made to achieve that position. I believe however that the skill and knowledge training for ordinary (not racing) sailing and boating can be done more effectively, be delivered using CAT, and with a revised syllabus and instructors with more professional skills, and that the testing of candidates should not be based on the accidental geographic availability of instructors.

As we move inevitably towards compulsory qualification (it will be driven ever more powerfully by insurance requirements) an alternative organisation to compete with the RYA in training and testing will work to the benefit of both the RYA and recreational/professional boat users.
 
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sarabande said:
the testing of candidates should not be based on the accidental geographic availability of instructors.
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Availability will always rely on enough people willing to spend their money on becoming instructors & examiners and their home location. Unless they are paid a sensible wage and travel expenses, difficult to persuade them to travel far as many are only doing it as a part time hobby/sideline.
 
VO5 said:
Provocative taunts ? You started this saying I was in a bubble you were prodding.
I am very far from being in a bubble, I assure you.
You asked a question - I gave you the absolutely correct answers.

To say it is not perfect must be the understatement of all time.
It is Mickey Mouse and everybody knows it, but very few have the balls to stand up and say it.
It should be scrapped and replaced with a serious organisation befitting the United Kingdom's seafaring heritage.
Click to expand...

If you read back it was not my remarks that made me comment on prodding your bubble. That was a comment of mine on your earlier trolling.

The rest of your comments are in your opinion only. 'Everyone knows that you are talking rubbish' makes as much sense as any of your remarks. You could always try running a commercial small boat or sailing school without authority or qualification and see how Mickey Mouse the authorities treat you?

Might I suggest that you substantiate your remarks or people will see them for what they are. Empty vessels make the most noise and you seem to be pretty noisy at the moment.
 
Quote 1. VO5
"Yes, and my criticism is minor, and very mild so far..... "

Quote 2. VO5
"No it doesn't. It indicates periscope depth as I explain above and is standard procedure for the US Navy as well. That some submarine commanders choose to ignore it is not the point. ...
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/search.php?searchid=4753996#Oo2ZK14XlO3Jo3ck.99"

Quote 3. VO5
"And the Australian Navy as well. So there ! :encouragement:"


Quote 4. VO5.
I have not mentioned that the candidate is expected to know and understand the Rules and Regulations For The Prevention Of Collisions at...
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/search.php?searchid=4753996#Oo2ZK14XlO3Jo3ck.99
The IRPCS does not mention yellow flashing lights for submarines (we assume) carrying out emergency surfacing procedure.
These instructions are for submarine commanders to execute when surfacing at..



Quote 5. V"I am a skimmer, not a submariner :D

Though at times with decks awash I sometimes have wondered...but I don't know.:eek:

And the thing is, currently I do not know who to ask. I used to have a next door neighbour when I lived in London, since deceased. His name was Jim Launders. He had the distinction of being the only and the first submariner in the RN to have sunk a U Boat during WW2 whilst still both were underwater. Some feat.

So your 'expertise' in these matters, on which you have lectured professionals on here, is based on 'asking your recently deceased next door neighbour'!

Capn Sensible is an ex-submariner, so am I, you talk tripe fella, and before you go lecturing people on IRPCS if would be preferable that you did some of that serious learning first, if you knew what you were talking about you wouldn't have to know who to ask!
 
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drumbeat said:
[COLOR="#40E0D0"]Quote 1. VO5
"Yes, and my criticism is minor, and very mild so far..... "

Quote 2. VO5
"No it doesn't. It indicates periscope depth as I explain above and is standard procedure for the US Navy as well. That some submarine commanders choose to ignore it is not the point. ...
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/search.php?searchid=4753996#Oo2ZK14XlO3Jo3ck.99"
Quote 3. VO5
"And the Australian Navy as well. So there ! :encouragement:"[/COLOR]


Quote 4. VO5.
I have not mentioned that the candidate is expected to know and understand the Rules and Regulations For The Prevention Of Collisions at...
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/search.php?searchid=4753996#Oo2ZK14XlO3Jo3ck.99
The IRPCS does not mention yellow flashing lights for submarines (we assume) carrying out emergency surfacing procedure.
These instructions are for submarine commanders to execute when surfacing at..



Quote 5. V"I am a skimmer, not a submariner :D

Though at times with decks awash I sometimes have wondered...but I don't know.:eek:

And the thing is, currently I do not know who to ask. I used to have a next door neighbour when I lived in London, since deceased. His name was Jim Launders. He had the distinction of being the only and the first submariner in the RN to have sunk a U Boat during WW2 whilst still both were underwater. Some feat.

So your 'expertise' in these matters, on which you have lectured professionals on here, is based on 'asking your recently deceased next door neighbour'!

Capn Sensible is an ex-submariner, so am I, you talk shite.
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So there ! ....I thought this kind of stuff was s'posed to be confined to the 'Fight Club' forum?
 
If I may be permitted....

I've long been aware that the RYA is a business - and thinks like a business. It is far, far more of a business than it is a Members' Club. It maintains the polite fiction because it benefits hugely from a benificent tax regime - and because a huge number of very worthwhile citizens give their time and efforts entirely 'pro bono' for the benefit of their local clubs and class associations. All that 'volunteer' work has a considerable value....

It is anticipated that, should these 'Scepter'd Isles' become even more integrated with the socio-political structures based in Brussels ( and I offer no opinion here ) - an 'ever closer union' - then at some point there will be the prospect of Harmonisation of Licences and Certification for small craft and their users, and a Directive to that end. After all, most of our neighbours already have such schemes and quite fail to understand why on earth we British persists in our quaint 'free for all'

That means we will need to get ourselves and our boats Registered, and get up to speed with our personal Qualifications.

And the RYA is carefully positioned to be the sole provider of such within the UK.

In such circumstances, positions on courses run by RYA Recognised Training Establishments will be like gold dust, and those qualified to Teach and to Examine will be able to write their own cheques.
 
sarabande said:
The RYA is a luxury organisation. It sees its position as the sole certificating authority in the UK, and with presence overseas, as being its by right, and I cannot blame them for protecting the investment in time and people that they have made to achieve that position.

As we move inevitably towards compulsory qualification (it will be driven ever more powerfully by insurance requirements) an alternative organisation to compete with the RYA in training and testing will work to the benefit of both the RYA and recreational/professional boat users.
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Better till Sid, then!

Actually, some years ago I had a very valid complaint to make to the RYA about a sailing school course I'd attended (a Coastal Skipper prep week with exam at the end, but the boat wasn't available for the first 24hrs then it transpired they'd forgotten to book an examiner!). Although I eventually got remedy from the sailing school (a partial refund of my course fees), my recollection of dealing with the relevant person at the RYA was that I was made to feel like a 'punter' for criticising one of their accredited schools.
 
GrahamM376 said:
Commercial small boat isn't a problem as harbour authorities can issue Boatman's license, as do Conwy.
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Can only take 12 passengers on a Boatmans, so hardly worthwhile & usually a concern of the Public Health Officialdom strangely enough, not harbour authorities. In Cowes, the PHO tried to control licencing, but the RYA & MCA soon sorted him out.
A Boatmaster however, can do a lot more & is issued by the MCA.
 
Babylon said:
Better till Sid, then!

Actually, some years ago I had a very valid complaint to make to the RYA about a sailing school course I'd attended (a Coastal Skipper prep week with exam at the end, but the boat wasn't available for the first 24hrs then it transpired they'd forgotten to book an examiner!). Although I eventually got remedy from the sailing school (a partial refund of my course fees), my recollection of dealing with the relevant person at the RYA was that I was made to feel like a 'punter' for criticising one of their accredited schools.
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You could have opted to attend a course in Paimpol in Brittany run by a really serious sailing school with an excellent worldwide reputation where they teach real sailing in rock strewn waters with really meaningful tides. The Glenans school they are called. Been teaching thousands since 1947. They run courses in English too.
 
Hello, noob here, long time lurker....

Well, I'm a bit disappointed that any mileage I clock up in my Jag 27 (LWL ~6.5m) in an area where a neap range is 8m and the weather can be properly ugly is considered as nothing next to my mileage pottering around Greece in a shiny new 32 footer in the sunshine. I've not done a huge amount in either, but the difference between the regions is quite apparent.

I had thought I might do the YM, but 2500 miles is a long way in a small boat and it would mean chartering one for months when I already own one, so I feel it's a bit out of range. All for the sake of a less fine entry, maybe I could glass-in a bulbous bow... :(

I appreciate the need for an exam to be conducted on a larger boat, and even that experience of a larger boat might be required (and also perhaps vice versa) but to discount a pretty large range of the boat-owning world seems rather arbitrary.

As for the tides in the original post, there are tidal areas with no significant tidal gates - and where I did mine you could discount them. A knowledge of tides is expected at the DS theory level which they're still supposed to be at on the non-tidal course I think? The little DS note book doesn't have a non-tidal variant. Couldn't comment on YM, my boat is a couple of feet too small at the waterline... :(
 
drumbeat said:
So your 'expertise' in these matters, on which you have lectured professionals on here, is based on 'asking your recently deceased next door neighbour'!
Click to expand...

"recently deceased" isn't quite the phrase because Commander James Launders died in 1988.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Launders

He was apparently known as "Jimmy" to his friends.

Which is probably why VO5 calls him Jim...

____________________________
 
drumbeat said:
In the 1980's I was chatting to some fellow instructors over the 'Thursday evening last night of course beer'. I made the observation then that the RYA would have no alternative to becoming a 'Ponzi' scheme, ever increasing it's radius of customers even, if necessary, to the detriment of standards, simply to fund the pensions and benefits of the then staff.
I was laughed at back then, they aren't laughing now.
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Ponzi scheme is that Fred drift onto the EU:rolleyes:They can only expand to the Russian boarder before every body realises.
 
shaunksb said:
"recently deceased" isn't quite the phrase because Commander James Launders died in 1988.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Launders

He was apparently known as "Jimmy" to his friends.

Which is probably why VO5 calls him Jim...

____________________________
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No it is because his wife Olive called him Jim also and not Jimmy.

'88 ? Phew ! ...Time flies...
 
VO5 said:
No it is because his wife Olive called him Jim also and not Jimmy.

'88 ? Phew ! ...Time flies...
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So, to be blunt, what about the yellow light, that you were so certain of? {i.e. Glenans certain). I think that you talk a good story but actually know diddly shit, sorry to be blunt, but am I wrong?
 
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