RYA - lost the plot?

[Deleted member 36384]

That's not strictly true. Quite a few schools in Ireland offer both ISA & RYA courses.

My mistake but it was explained to me by an examiner, Rod Smith of Cumbrae National Watersports Centre to be precise, so perhaps the comment is only applicable to UK based schools. I can imagine the RYA could not and would not want to mandate that their scheme trumps another countries national sail training scheme.

 

[Uricanejack]

Over forty-five years ago I spent 4 hours a week at Sir John Cass College for two winter terms on the old Board of Trade Yachtmaster Ocean course. The syllabus, rightly was comprehensive, and I can confirm the views of others that teaching of Colregs, inc Lights, and Signalling and the Code of Signals was rigorous and highly structured. As was the ocean sextant section. We had to pass Morse and Semaphore as well.

That course served me well for the next twenty years racing and blue water cruising.

Earlier this year, after an insurance company said "Board of what ?" to my application, I decided to start over again, and went through the Day Skipper shore course at my local club, taught by RYA qualified people experienced in the course.

Now I have over thirty years experience of teaching and training, and something like seven of being taught as an adult, and I do not recognise that the elegant and polished terms used above to describe how the RYA runs its courses were applied in practice either in the club teaching sessions and more significantly in the material given out by the RYA training dept.

The teaching protocols used were clumsy, the understanding by the instructors (lovely and charming men all of them) of how people learn and what they need in order to progress in what is not a linear subject ( DS is a series of small linear topics which can be taken almost in any order) was sadly deficient, and the erratic progress we all made was due to a poor definition of the basic terms of the syllabus, and diagrams which were often difficult to understand and nearly always childish.


The course was in fact heavily dumbed down from the relevant material I had learned years before, and could be said to be a candidate for rigorous review and translocation to current best practice teaching methods and media.


But yes, I enjoyed it, and much of the real learning took place in informal discussions during and after the class, with everyone piling in with advice and mutual help.

Was it good ? No. The course seems to be designed by a graphics person, not by a group of people skilled in identifying the core topics to be learned and the best way to transfer knowledge of those topics to a group of people of widely ranging intellectual ability and sailing experience. In the time spent in the class room, with proper AV and CAT technology, I think the amount of material taught could be increased by 50%, and -importantly - could be taught better and with less confusion. And that would be key to giving a much better understanding of key topics such as Colregs, Comms, and Duties of a skipper.

Was it Good Value ? Yes. About half the course is going on to a week's practical later this year, and that function - of translating a fairly rickety classroom experience to a hands-on learning one is one to which I am very much looking forward.

My view of the current DS course is jaundiced by my previous taught and sailing experience, and by reading here that the RYA applies best practice in designing and running courses. They have skimmed the surface of what people need to know, and do not make use of best teaching practice and technology.

There is a need for an alternative training and assessment organisation, in the same way that schools, colleges and universities have access to a number of rigorously quality controlled examing and syllabus facilities.

Its unfortunate you found the standard of teaching did not meet your expectations. Would it be the school or training establishment which was at fault rather than the RYA?
The RYA does not teach or instruct. The RYA sets a standard for sailing schools to instruct to.

I wonder if your disappointment may be due to having picked the wrong course. Having a Board Of Trade YM. You have learned a great deal more to a higher standard than what appears to be the described standard of the RYA Day Skipper. Which is a Basic entry level course for a new sailor.
For a YM probably quite boring. Perhaps if you had chosen a YM shore and prep course it may have met your needs better?
Particularly since you are an experienced sailor.

 

[Uricanejack]

No it doesn't. It indicates periscope depth as I explain above and is standard procedure for the US Navy as well. That some submarine commanders choose to ignore it is not the point. :encouragement:

If I saw an orange flashing light, My first thought would be an AA service vehicle.

If the submarine was a periscope depth? How would anyone other than a passing mackerel see the orange light which would presumably be at least one full periscope length under water?

 

[Uricanejack]

Yet professional development, which is a key part of maintaining competence and relevance in industry, for example, is all about blended learning these days: self study (distance learning), maintaining an awareness of changes in the discipline (membership of professional bodies and reading journals), mentored guidance, application; attending courses is a minor part of this. I work for a multinational oil major and our training has changed significantly over the 25 years I have been employed. A significant part of my continuous development is now self study, with on line self examination, usually multiple choice. When I am ready I take the final on line exam (within a time frame stipulated by my employer) and then follow a mentored period before final sign off. This is no wishy way, the training I receive like this is to ensure that I protect my employer against all sorts of litigation at both local and international levels, so it is quite critical. If self study was considered poor model, then my employer would not use it. Think Macondo and BP and you will see why my employer is keen that I don't mess up.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Spent a number of years with one of those corporate giants. Now with another corporate organisation. H & S training and I show up when the training didn't work.
I get sent on courses every so often. I just love the ones where they squeeze 2 days worth into a 5 day course.
Cost is the big factor. Even getting entry level newbie up to speed can cost 10k. We tried the multiple guess computer self educate way. More efficient, Quicker, Reaches more people, Better, More Suited to adults? Nada cheaper.

Turns out it costs even more when you have to clean up after. ended up going back to an actual live person teaching actual live persons. Best done on the job not the class room.
Very expensive. But cheaper than the alternative.

We still do some stuff by self study computer guess exams. We do quite a bit of combo's.

And I still have to attend a few classroom snooze fests. At least there is usually a free lunch. As a general rule if I start snoring after lunch. The course wasn't to good.

Fortunately the RYA allows for a fairly wide variety of learning options you can choose which works for you.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Over forty-five years ago I spent 4 hours a week at Sir John Cass College for two winter terms on the old Board of Trade Yachtmaster Ocean course. The syllabus, rightly was comprehensive, and I can confirm the views of others that teaching of Colregs, inc Lights, and Signalling and the Code of Signals was rigorous and highly structured. As was the ocean sextant section. We had to pass Morse and Semaphore as well.

That course served me well for the next twenty years racing and blue water cruising.

Earlier this year, after an insurance company said "Board of what ?" to my application, I decided to start over again, and went through the Day Skipper shore course at my local club, taught by RYA qualified people experienced in the course.

Now I have over thirty years experience of teaching and training, and something like seven of being taught as an adult, and I do not recognise that the elegant and polished terms used above to describe how the RYA runs its courses were applied in practice either in the club teaching sessions and more significantly in the material given out by the RYA training dept.

The teaching protocols used were clumsy, the understanding by the instructors (lovely and charming men all of them) of how people learn and what they need in order to progress in what is not a linear subject ( DS is a series of small linear topics which can be taken almost in any order) was sadly deficient, and the erratic progress we all made was due to a poor definition of the basic terms of the syllabus, and diagrams which were often difficult to understand and nearly always childish.


The course was in fact heavily dumbed down from the relevant material I had learned years before, and could be said to be a candidate for rigorous review and translocation to current best practice teaching methods and media.


But yes, I enjoyed it, and much of the real learning took place in informal discussions during and after the class, with everyone piling in with advice and mutual help.

Was it good ? No. The course seems to be designed by a graphics person, not by a group of people skilled in identifying the core topics to be learned and the best way to transfer knowledge of those topics to a group of people of widely ranging intellectual ability and sailing experience. In the time spent in the class room, with proper AV and CAT technology, I think the amount of material taught could be increased by 50%, and -importantly - could be taught better and with less confusion. And that would be key to giving a much better understanding of key topics such as Colregs, Comms, and Duties of a skipper.

Was it Good Value ? Yes. About half the course is going on to a week's practical later this year, and that function - of translating a fairly rickety classroom experience to a hands-on learning one is one to which I am very much looking forward.

My view of the current DS course is jaundiced by my previous taught and sailing experience, and by reading here that the RYA applies best practice in designing and running courses. They have skimmed the surface of what people need to know, and do not make use of best teaching practice and technology.

There is a need for an alternative training and assessment organisation, in the same way that schools, colleges and universities have access to a number of rigorously quality controlled examing and syllabus facilities.

I understand and completely sympathise with your frustration and criticism of the DS Theory course you attended but you are wide of the mark in assuming it's entirely the RYA's fault. The RYA set the syllabus and try to ensure instructors have some knowledge of learning styles but schools are at liberty to source or make their own materials. I suspect (but it's only a guess) that some Shorebased instructors were appointed from a previous era where knowledge of the subject and enthusiasm were the only necessary prerequisites. I suppose one could criticise the RYA as being ultimately responsible for the course, but short of only ensuring qualified post 16 teachers (and as you probably know, there is such a qualification) I'd be interested to know what they might do? More inspections? They already employ an independent body to check customer satisfaction.

 

[Uricanejack]

I am afraid you are very out of touch (unsurprisingly) with what "learning" is all about.

Candidates for this qualification are invariably mature and experienced in learning and strategies whereby they are "taught" or "instructed" have proved to be ineffective.

Individuals are self motivated and independent - not dependent on somebody standing in front of them a drilling them. Undertaking an RYA qualification is voluntary, so one would expect candidates to be prepared to learn for themselves, not need to be instructed. Most are perfectly capable of learning what is necessary in a knowledge sense by themselves using the resources available to them. Learning goes in a cycle from acquiring a knowledge base, putting it to practical use through a real life experience, reflecting on what happened - then maybe acquiring more knowledge and trying it out again.

We expect Yachtmasters to be independent, motivated learners, not to just respond automatically to instructions or repeat verbatim what they have been told. Many are professional people in their working lives and are sailing for pleasure. So not unreasonable that they expect their learning experience to mirror the way they learn and develop professionally.

I can understand your attachment to the way you were taught - just not the way things are now. Easy to think that is the way I did , therefore it must be right, and others are lesser being for not having done the same. Many of my older colleagues at university were the same. However that is not how employers want their employees educated. Knowledge of facts has its place, but it is what people can do with them that is important in a practical activity such as skippering your own yacht. Most of the mechanics of operating a yacht are simple, and you certainly don't need to waste 3 days having somebody tell you how the rig works. Time with an instructor is limited, and that time must be spent on activities the learner cannot do by himself - it is not a place for the instructor to spend all his time showing how much more he knows than the student. he is there to help the student build on his knowledge base in a practical situation.

What I have described is the dominant approach to adult learning, simply because it reflects the way adults learn and demonstrably more effective than earlier instructional methods. Hard for people who have not experienced it to accept, and just as hard for people who have to accept going back to an instructor centred environment.

I suspect YM candidates vary a bit more.

From eager youngsters with a dream of an exciting career and travel to grizzled old farts with beards and beer bellies.

 

[Uricanejack]

Perhaps one of the issues, Some feel is the enthusiastic amateur is being left behind by the modern use of the YM as a "Professional" certification. Hence the arguments about size and suitability.
Perception may not be reality. Some on here appear to believe it is becoming no longer relevant to them.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Perhaps one of the issues, Some feel is the enthusiastic amateur is being left behind by the modern use of the YM as a "Professional" certification. Hence the arguments about size and suitability.
Perception may not be reality. Some on here appear to believe it is becoming no longer relevant to them.

You may have hit the nail on the head with those remarks.

The YM scheme has become a victim of its own success and has morphed into a professional qualification when you add a couple of other courses. It started out as a scheme for amateur yachtsmen to show their skills (and perhaps be part of reserve forces) and is now the go to qualification for many young people making their way in the yachting and superyacht industry.

Don't think the RYA aren't aware; I understand that there are moves afoot to introduce a varient more suited to the superyacht deck hand "professional yachtsman". Otherwise we've got a lot of chamois technicians (aka deck hands) trying to persuade me they've skippered various passages over 60 miles when in reality they've only driven the 40' tender to shore and back to pick up guests.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Perhaps one of the issues, Some feel is the enthusiastic amateur is being left behind by the modern use of the YM as a "Professional" certification. Hence the arguments about size and suitability.
Perception may not be reality. Some on here appear to believe it is becoming no longer relevant to them.

The YM scheme has become a victim of its own success and has morphed into a professional qualification when you add a couple of other courses. It started out as a scheme for amateur yachtsmen to show their skills (and perhaps be part of reserve forces) and is now the go to qualification for many young people making their way in the yachting and superyacht industry.

Exactly what I feel. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a 10m - 24m qualification for professionals and aspiring professionals, but it might be nice to have a 7m - 12m qualification for amateurs as well.

 

[jordanbasset]

When I did my Day Skipper theory I had already done my 'homework' and was pretty good on the lights, shapes etc. Was dissapointed in the course as he was very much the old style OHP rote learning type instructor. Nice man to be fair but I can learn that from a book, found it difficult to concentrate after 20 minutes of OHP's and just the instructor talking. What I wanted more of was navigation and what if scenarios. To be fair we did cover navigation but would have just liked more time on it.
Quite a few years later I did the Yachtmaster Theory course and in that case the trainer was much better. He expected us to know the basics and we concentrated on the more difficult issues and the 'what if' scenarios and was very much into the facilitative style of training. Enjoyed it and learned a lot both from the trainer and other students.

 

[sarabande]

JD - the difficulty with a size-related qualification is that someone might - in theory - be faced with a boat which is smaller or larger by a centimetre than their qualification range. What to do if the superyacht owner says "Take that boat to pick up the new arrivals" and the boat is out of the chap's range ? Or you are sailing as crew on a bigger boat than your 'type', and you are asked to take a watch overnight ?


What are the alternatives ? Perhaps sail or power (but my sailing boat is a power boat at times - will I need both quals ? ) Perhaps location, or distance from land (but I've raced in the Solent in F8 wind against tide, and found it more challenging than returning from the Hook to Harwich in a similar wind) ? Perhaps a combination of Beaufort and Sea State - and you can imagine the fun the insurance companies would have with that !

There must be an 'envelope' of boat type and operating conditions within which a person can be deemed to be 'competent' (leave aside the qualifications arguments for now). Once you start defining an envelope, the syllabus defines itself, and that syllabus must include demonstration of experience before the full certificate is issued (nothing wrong with a two-stage certificate BTW) except that in the not too distant future we may be constrained more by insurance companies than a quasi-regulatory organisation.



And for UrricaneJack. I decided to start at the bottom of the ladder again, not because I wanted to 'test' the sailing school course against my own experience and previous exams, but because I realised that I was rusty and not fit to take full command of and responsibility for even a small sailing boat and crew. I've no doubt that was the right decision, but my comments on the course could not have been made if I had not made myself go on it, not as some 'mystery shopper' wanting to find holes in the coursework and delivery, but because I wanted earn my chitty again. It was good fun, but could have been much better in terms of syllabus, supporting paperwork, pedagogical presentation, and to a certain extent the reliance on a single terminal exam. I would bet that a series of continuous assessment tests plus a final review exam would be better at helping people retain the information and would also give chance for greater depth of testing. The role of the exam as a teaching tool is severely underestimated

 

[awol]

On the matter of boat size for the YM practical it would be nice to believe that some form of research and science had gone into the change from a minimum of 23' LOA, perhaps even in consultation with the MCA. From the timing and the haphazard way in which it was promulgated, and is still presented by the RYA on its website, I am convinced it was an ill thought out fudge to get over the failure to provide an examiner for one porcine forumite with a smallish gaff cutter (well over 23' with bowsprit) at a chilly time of year in an outpost of the RYA empire. Nothing to do with demographics, super yachts, tonnage, professional qualifications, suitability for offshore passages or common sense - it would have been good if it was - just an expedient to cover the RYA's arse because they could not find an examiner who fancied a chilly day out on a boat with a plethora of string.

 

[john_morris_uk]

On the matter of boat size for the YM practical it would be nice to believe that some form of research and science had gone into the change from a minimum of 23' LOA, perhaps even in consultation with the MCA. From the timing and the haphazard way in which it was promulgated, and is still presented by the RYA on its website, I am convinced it was an ill thought out fudge to get over the failure to provide an examiner for one porcine forumite with a smallish gaff cutter (well over 23' with bowsprit) at a chilly time of year in an outpost of the RYA empire. Nothing to do with demographics, super yachts, tonnage, professional qualifications, suitability for offshore passages or common sense - it would have been good if it was - just an expedient to cover the RYA's arse because they could not find an examiner who fancied a chilly day out on a boat with a plethora of string.

I think you are being a little unkind and casting aspersions unnecessarily on the RYA.

The fact of the matter is that there are very few examiners who live in Scotland. (I know as I get flown up to examine there by a commercial company who need their support vessels driven by commercially endorsed YM Coastals of YM Offshores.) Its their choice to fly me up there but under the rules I am not allowed to ask for travelling etc.

If someone wants an exam on ANY boat, the rule is that the examiner only gets his fee and doesn't get travelling expenses. This makes it very difficult to get an exam anywhere the slightest bit remote as it just isn't worth the trouble and time of the examiner. In fact the fees for examining one candidate anywhere hardly makes it worth it. You need four over two days to make any and even then you aren't going to make your fortune. (And then its another day to write up the reports)

Suggesting the RYA changed the rules to suit the situation and get out of a hole is disingenuous and unsupported supposition. Claiming its because an examiner isn't available who knows how to sail a small gaffer is nonsense. The truth is there are very few examiners N of the border.

Unfortunately, the geography doesn't make moving back there any more attractive,. When I lived just NW of Glasgow, appeals for an examiner to go and conduct an exam off Skye for one candidate were still not attractive either financially or as a good use of my time.

 

[sarabande]

If the RYA claims to be "the national governing body for all forms of boating" (their website, which seems to be bigging it up just a little ) is it not incumbent upon them to provide and manage a service which enable examiners to travel to all parts of the UK without having to fund their own travel ?


"The truth is there are very few examiners N of the border". If that the case then the RYA is not nationally represented ?

There's a need to ensure that a wizened fisherman in Kinlochbervie and the pimply youth in Padstow can both be certain of getting an examiner who is not putting his own financial profit before delivering a quality-controlled and impartial assessment. To do that would change the relationship the RYA has with its examiners and the way they are paid, though. The RYA might lose £50 on an exam in NW Scotland but make £500 on four consecutive exams conducted in the Hamble. Other professional organisations (Music, Health and Safety Assessment) manage to do it, but there must be something financially advantageous to the RYA to use a telephonic dutch auction to enable impecunious and starving examiners to seize the opportunity to pick up candidates far afield. The burden on examiners to travel should be borne by the RYA, not by the examiner or the candidate, on the basis of a single common fee.


EDIT

One notes now that the RYA has assets of over £3million, despite making (2015 accounts) provision for liabilities of over £2.4million (previous year £84k) !!

 

[john_morris_uk]

If the RYA claims to be "the national governing body for all forms of boating" (their website, which seems to be bigging it up just a little ) is it not incumbent upon them to provide and manage a service which enable examiners to travel to all parts of the UK without having to fund their own travel ?


"The truth is there are very few examiners N of the border". If that the case then the RYA is not nationally represented ?

There's a need to ensure that a wizened fisherman in Kinlochbervie and the pimply youth in Padstow can both be certain of getting an examiner who is not putting his own financial profit before delivering a quality-controlled and impartial assessment. To do that would change the relationship the RYA has with its examiners and the way they are paid, though. The RYA might lose £50 on an exam in NW Scotland but make £500 on four consecutive exams conducted in the Hamble. Other professional organisations (Music, Health and Safety Assessment) manage to do it, but there must be something financially advantageous to the RYA to use a telephonic dutch auction to enable impecunious and starving examiners to seize the opportunity to pick up candidates far afield. The burden on examiners to travel should be borne by the RYA, not by the examiner or the candidate, on the basis of a single common fee.

You may or may not be correct. (I couldn't possibly comment in public. ) I suppose they would claim to be nationally representative etc as there are examiners N of the border - just not very many of them.

However I can only explain the regulations under which examiners work as it stands. I note that it also leads to the sorts of incorrect aspersions made by some people about the motives for some things happening.

 

[Seajet]

Or only sails in places where big boat predominate and dismisses everywhere else as an out-of-the way place, not worth bothering about.

The small boats haven't disappeared, or at least the GRP ones haven't. They just aren't, generally speaking, in marinas. And even if the absolute number doing adventurous things has declined as well as the proportion, they - we - are still around. Sorry.

You're spot on there, he said after spending a weekend examining graduate engineers against a list of competencies.

+1.

Before the recession the trend was towards 30' + boats, for no good reason other than the Boat Show " OOH Norman it's got a lovely kitchen ! " effect...

Then cruiser and dinghy sailing went into a serious decline - there was a collection of very good dinghies left abandoned at our club, a heart-breaking sight.

Then our and other clubs around started actively recruiting; now the dinghy section is very busy and the moorings are full; I notice the new to us cruisers are 16 - 24'

 

[awol]

I think you are being a little unkind and casting aspersions unnecessarily on the RYA.

The juxtaposition of the saga of the Black Pig and the changes to the YM size requirements in his correspondence and on the RYA website may have been pure coincidence but I have my doubts. As I understand it the offer of the exam was promulgated to examiners in the normal way and for whatever reason (the time of year and size of boat were facts but maybe not relevant) there were no takers. It was after that, and the suggestion that the exam be taken in the south of England, that the size requirements were changed. One version of the new requirements of >7.5m LWL outlawed such boats as the Contessa 32, Rival 32, etc. and was subsequently shrunk to 7m LWL. As far as I know, the proposed changes were not published for consultation with the membership, training establishments, examiners of the RYA or the MCA - I would be happy to be proved wrong.

There appears to be something very wrong with a system that only adequately compensates examiners if multiple candidates are tested in the same session. I now realise I owe a debt of gratitude to my YM examiner who turned out for my single test on the Clyde. In my defence I did at least feed him and ply him with copious quantities of tea and had even read the IRPCS, even if my memory wasn't that good.

 

[john_morris_uk]

The juxtaposition of the saga of the Black Pig and the changes to the YM size requirements in his correspondence and on the RYA website may have been pure coincidence but I have my doubts. As I understand it the offer of the exam was promulgated to examiners in the normal way and for whatever reason (the time of year and size of boat were facts but maybe not relevant) there were no takers. It was after that, and the suggestion that the exam be taken in the south of England, that the size requirements were changed. One version of the new requirements of >7.5m LWL outlawed such boats as the Contessa 32, Rival 32, etc. and was subsequently shrunk to 7m LWL. As far as I know, the proposed changes were not published for consultation with the membership, training establishments, examiners of the RYA or the MCA - I would be happy to be proved wrong.

There appears to be something very wrong with a system that only adequately compensates examiners if multiple candidates are tested in the same session. I now realise I owe a debt of gratitude to my YM examiner who turned out for my single test on the Clyde. In my defence I did at least feed him and ply him with copious quantities of tea and had even read the IRPCS, even if my memory wasn't that good.

The amount you get paid as an examiner is public information: http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectio...s/RYA Training/Exams/RYA Examination fees.pdf

A bricky gets more than £114 a day. The RYA used to say you could examine no more than three people in 24 hours but they changed that to two a little while ago.

Now take your travelling time and expense into account and you can see why one does it for love of sailing/boating and to put something back into the sport.

The fees were held at the 2015 level for 2016.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Further to my last, I regularly get offered work as an instructor.

Instructing sail (on duty 24 hours a day for 5 days) you get offered between £125 and £135 a day.

The exam to become an instructor costs just short of £1000, you then need a medical (£70) and STCW etc (another £1000). You need to take a PPR course and exam ( a few £)

You need to be updated every five years (another few hundred) and they've just bought in a regulation that says your STCW will need to be revalidated every few years as well. (Another £1000 a pop)

I was fortunate and got my Firefighting and First Aid and Personal Survival Training through the navy. Next time I have to pay. (And the schools wonder why they struggle to find qualified instructors...)

I think I'll just go sailing on my boat instead.

 

[JumbleDuck]

JD - the difficulty with a size-related qualification is that someone might - in theory - be faced with a boat which is smaller or larger by a centimetre than their qualification range. What to do if the superyacht owner says "Take that boat to pick up the new arrivals" and the boat is out of the chap's range ? Or you are sailing as crew on a bigger boat than your 'type', and you are asked to take a watch overnight ?

The existing Yachtmaster^TM Offshore has a cutoff too. So do pilots# licenses. If you're asked to do something illegal you say "no".


What are the alternatives ? Perhaps sail or power (but my sailing boat is a power boat at times - will I need both quals ? ) Perhaps location, or distance from land (but I've raced in the Solent in F8 wind against tide, and found it more challenging than returning from the Hook to Harwich in a similar wind) ? Perhaps a combination of Beaufort and Sea State - and you can imagine the fun the insurance companies would have with that !

There must be an 'envelope' of boat type and operating conditions within which a person can be deemed to be 'competent' (leave aside the qualifications arguments for now). Once you start defining an envelope, the syllabus defines itself, and that syllabus must include demonstration of experience before the full certificate is issued (nothing wrong with a two-stage certificate BTW) except that in the not too distant future we may be constrained more by insurance companies than a quasi-regulatory organisation.



And for UrricaneJack. I decided to start at the bottom of the ladder again, not because I wanted to 'test' the sailing school course against my own experience and previous exams, but because I realised that I was rusty and not fit to take full command of and responsibility for even a small sailing boat and crew. I've no doubt that was the right decision, but my comments on the course could not have been made if I had not made myself go on it, not as some 'mystery shopper' wanting to find holes in the coursework and delivery, but because I wanted earn my chitty again. It was good fun, but could have been much better in terms of syllabus, supporting paperwork, pedagogical presentation, and to a certain extent the reliance on a single terminal exam. I would bet that a series of continuous assessment tests plus a final review exam would be better at helping people retain the information and would also give chance for greater depth of testing. The role of the exam as a teaching tool is severely underestimated [/QUOTE]

On the matter of boat size for the YM practical it would be nice to believe that some form of research and science had gone into the change from a minimum of 23' LOA, perhaps even in consultation with the MCA. From the timing and the haphazard way in which it was promulgated, and is still presented by the RYA on its website, I am convinced it was an ill thought out fudge to get over the failure to provide an examiner for one porcine forumite with a smallish gaff cutter (well over 23' with bowsprit) at a chilly time of year in an outpost of the RYA empire. Nothing to do with demographics, super yachts, tonnage, professional qualifications, suitability for offshore passages or common sense - it would have been good if it was - just an expedient to cover the RYA's arse because they could not find an examiner who fancied a chilly day out on a boat with a plethora of string.

Yup. That's exactly how it came across,

Suggesting the RYA changed the rules to suit the situation and get out of a hole is disingenuous and unsupported supposition. Claiming its because an examiner isn't available who knows how to sail a small gaffer is nonsense. The truth is there are very few examiners N of the border.

So why didn't they say "Sorry, we have no nearby examiner?" Why did they introduce a brand new length restriction which contradicted (and contradicts) the information available on their website? They could have said "Move your boat closer and we'll talk". It's not as if he was at the end of the world either, so if the RYA officially wants to pull out of Scotland maybe it should do so. Claiming to offer a national scheme which only operates at the whim of a small number of amateur examiners is not deeply impressive.