RYA - lost the plot?

[JumbleDuck]

His claim is that an instructor gave out a 'YM ticket' with no test. Instructors do not give out YM certificates, the RYA department tasked with overseeing the YM exams do. His claim is therefore impossible'

I think that "gave him the ticket" covers "did what was necessary for him to get his ticket".

 

[JumbleDuck]

Complete rubbish. I know several examiners (including myself) who have sailed gaff rigged boats.

... couldn't find a local examiner ...

 

[capnsensible]

Incidentally, the couple of people I know who got no-test Yactmasters was simply to hire a boat of a size that the company would not normally bareboat to beginners, that's all.

OK. Schools and charter companies cant hand them out either. I am sure you are getting confused with the ICC.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I'm most certainly NOT permitted to examine candidates I know personally or have taught or who I have failed previously.

I can see the point in the of friends and pupils, but what's the reason for not allowing you to re-test? I passed my Bronze "C" flying tests at the second attempt, with the same instructor/examiner who had failed me a month or two earlier.

(He covered the altimeter, did a winch launch, put the glider in a full spin at 1200' and said "You have control". I had to land in a marked area, directly underneath, which was only just long enough to make a landing.)

 

[dom]

FWIW my daughter recently passed her driving test after being examined by the same tester who had failed her a few weeks earlier.

 

[capnsensible]

To be honest I'm hesitating to use words like rogue, but it's a fair question and I know for certain that the instructor in question knew one of the students very well and the said student can't half punt a boat around a few yellow floaty things! I'd better stop there, but I would certainly say he's a gifted sailor.

I say again, Instructors do not hand out tickets.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I can tell you what we do and I understand its common practice.

There are a few examiners local to us and I book whoever is available on the date requested. That keeps the travel cost low for the candidate. Occasionally when a local guy isn't available, we contact the RYA Training department and then ring around to find someone. That is a PITA and can be pricey. Mind you, I have run prep weeks in Lanzarote and Antigua ( hard life) and that is real costalot.

I know another school that has high volume and several of their instructors are examiners too. However, the examiners cannot examine students they have taught.

Forumites should note that in the UK examiners aren't paid travel costs. It's only overseas that you get paid your travel (usually shared between the candidates).

 

[capnsensible]

I can see the point in the of friends and pupils, but what's the reason for not allowing you to re-test? I passed my Bronze "C" flying tests at the second attempt, with the same instructor/examiner who had failed me a month or two earlier.

Its to prevent the type of mis understandings and hearsay that you get on threads like this from really happening.

There are better conspiracy theories but (with about as much weight) in the Lounge.

 

[dom]

I say again, Instructors do not hand out tickets.

mr sensible, those last two quotes of mine are from over 150 posts back

The question is simple and you know perfectly well what it is!

 

[JumbleDuck]

Its to prevent the type of mis understandings and hearsay that you get on threads like this from really happening.

I still don't understand. Sure, it would look a bit odd if Fred examined his daughter, or his pupils, but if Fred failed Cynthia on something, why shouldn't he be allowed to examine her again? What sort of misunderstandings might arise?

 

[Seajet]

I can tell you what we do and I understand its common practice.

There are a few examiners local to us and I book whoever is available on the date requested. That keeps the travel cost low for the candidate. Occasionally when a local guy isn't available, we contact the RYA Training department and then ring around to find someone. That is a PITA and can be pricey. Mind you, I have run prep weeks in Lanzarote and Antigua ( hard life) and that is real costalot.

I know another school that has high volume and several of their instructors are examiners too. However, the examiners cannot examine students they have taught.

Capnsensible,

thanks.

I do however retain doubts about some of the ' instructors ' from large sailing schools around my way - after 1 to 1 meetings I wouldn't trust some of them with a pencil sharpener, let alone a yacht with people's lives - and whenever I see them in the distance I go to ' yellow alert ' !

I think the general theme of Old Bilbo's thread is that the RYA have become a lot too commercial, looking after accountants and bankers first, boat owners a distinct second; hence the Studland MCZ fiasco which had to be sorted out by motivated individuals like Old Harry & BORG.

 

[capnsensible]

I still don't understand. Sure, it would look a bit odd if Fred examined his daughter, or his pupils, but if Fred failed Cynthia on something, why shouldn't he be allowed to examine her again? What sort of misunderstandings might arise?

Should the candidate fail for a second time with the same examiner, an allegation of personality clash may arise. You know what some people are like....

So once again, the system is designed to keep both sides impartial and chances of abuse as tiny as possible.

Of course, mine is not the staff answer, only based on over 25 years of observation. For that, email the man with the resposibility of taking flak.

http://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/enewsletters/inbrief/Pages/Meettheteam-RichardFalk.aspx

 

[alant]

You couldn't afford me...!

Does that mean you are amenable to a brown envelope, at the right pecunary level of course?


I'm most certainly NOT permitted to examine candidates I know personally or have taught or who I have failed previously.



Complete rubbish. I know several examiners (including myself) who have sailed gaff rigged boats.



More fool the French. The RYA employ an independent quality control company to interview candidates. Furthermore schools are liable to be spot checked. A determined fraudster might get past the system but the risks are diminishingly small IMHO.

The system might not be perfect but it's not open to the criticisms of some on here.

 

[john_morris_uk]

. How much are you offering?

 

[VO5]

Capnsensible,

thanks.

I do however retain doubts about some of the ' instructors ' from large sailing schools around my way - after 1 to 1 meetings I wouldn't trust some of them with a pencil sharpener, let alone a yacht with people's lives - and whenever I see them in the distance I go to ' yellow alert ' !

I think the general theme of Old Bilbo's thread is that the RYA have become a lot too commercial, looking after accountants and bankers first, boat owners a distinct second; hence the Studland MCZ fiasco which had to be sorted out by motivated individuals like Old Harry & BORG.

Seajet, there are two main problems that arise with teaching and learning of a subject unfamiliar to the student.

The first is a problem involving memory. Many appear to absorb a concept, and indeed at the moment the lesson is imparted it may be so. But later, the student may struggle to remember accurately what has been taught and its implications.

The second problem is one of familiarity. The knowledge does not have value until the student has a realisation. This is because although the lesson may be understood, it has no real tangible meaning until a realisation arrives that serves to embed the knowledge meaningfully. Until then, it is just "known" but without real depth of real meaningful understanding.

It is not until both are cemented that it can be truly said complete absorption has taken place.

 

[Seajet]

Well yes, but then you did just walk off an aircraft carrier

dom,

while I'd love to perpuate that idea, the only aircraft carrier I've ever been on is the late HMS Illustrious at the last Portsmouth Festival Of the Sea !

I virtually begged to go on carrier trials with the Sea Harrier, but the slots were grabbed by Kingston PR photographers; a more unpleasant bunch I have yet to meet, who then moaned about being on a ship !

My works on the development of the Harrier - mainly MKII GR5 bomber and Sea Harrier Mks 1 & 2 fighter - were land based, unfortunately; but later my electronic & engineering colleagues were fresh from the Falklands War.

My Dad volunteered as soon as he was 18 for the Fleet Air Arm in 1942 on mainly Escort Carriers, as a Leading Air Mechanic looking after Seafire ( Spitfire ) and Hellcat engines - if you visit the Imperial War Museum in London you can hear his story on headphones - Stan Lawson.

 

[alant]

. How much are you offering?

Already got mine, but nice to confirm you are open minded.

 

[dom]

dom,

while I'd love to perpuate that idea, the only aircraft carrier I've ever been on is the late HMS Illustrious at the last Portsmouth Festival Of the Sea !

I virtually begged to go on carrier trials with the Sea Harrier, but the slots were grabbed by Kingston PR photographers; a more unpleasant bunch I have yet to meet, who then moaned about being on a ship !

My works on the development of the Harrier - mainly MKII GR5 bomber and Sea Harrier Mks 1 & 2 fighter - were land based, unfortunately; but later my electronic & engineering colleagues were fresh from the Falklands War.

My Dad volunteered as soon as he was 18 for the Fleet Air Arm in 1942 on mainly Escort Carriers, as a Leading Air Mechanic looking after Seafire ( Spitfire ) and Hellcat engines - if you visit the Imperial War Museum in London you can hear his story on headphones - Stan Lawson.

Wow, did you ever come across a chap called Bill Bedford, a WWII Hurricane, Thunderbolt and Mustang pilot who sadly passed away in 1996? He used to teach my ex flying and if I recall correctly was an early Harrier test-pilot and talked about once smacking a prototype into overhead lines or pylon during a vertical takeoff, alongside a few other hair raising moments including an ejection! Lovely bloke and seemed like a really fun period back then.

 

[Seajet]

Wow, did you ever come across a chap called Bill Bedford, a WWII Hurricane, Thunderbolt and Mustang pilot who sadly passed away in 1996? He used to teach my ex flying and if I recall correctly was an early Harrier test-pilot and talked about once smacking a prototype into overhead lines or pylon during a vertical takeoff, alongside a few other hair raising moments including an ejection! Lovely bloke and seemed like a really fun period back then.[/QUOTE

Hi,

dom, I had the honour as an apprentice of attending lectures by Bll Bedford " We haven't got around to anti-gravity paint yet ! " - and later flying with him in the Dunsfold ' inter-site comms ' Piper PA-44 Seminole; the regular pilot Chris Darwin - no slouch himself as ex FAA Phantom driver - asked " what do you think ? " - re the Seminole - and Bill's quick reply was " Needs more fin area ".

As the thing used to dutch roll like mad in crosswinds - foreign potential Hawk pilots had been known to bottle out on landings - and my own buttock clenching experiences as photographer/passenger confirm I'm sure Bill was right about G-BGCO Charlie Oscar !

Bill was of course the first Test Pilot to fly the P1127 Harrier prototype, XP831, on a tethered hover as the reaction controls were at that stage a long way from being sorted or powerful enough.

He had been in a car crash courtesy of his German driver the week before, so had his broken leg in plaster and got a unique Doctor's note, " Test Pilot, permitted to fly; tethered hovering only " !

Bill was also a champion glider piot, as well as his WWII exploits; quite obviously a larger than life character who is missed by everyone who met him.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Should the candidate fail for a second time with the same examiner, an allegation of personality clash may arise. You know what some people are like....

Ah yes. I see what you mean.