RYA - lost the plot?

[dom]

There is no such thing. They are pulling your pudding.

I've no idea how widespread this practice is, nor do I particularly care.

But in two particular instances I know for sure that YM Offshore qualifications were issued under primarily land based test conditions. It is possible that a boat was hired at some point in Hyde Park although on the day in question I wouldn't have recommended it

Once again I'm not criticising anyone here, the yachting industry is overwhelmingly a merit as opposed to a qualification driven one and it's great to see UK kids getting into and succeeding in their chosen career. In that light I feel certain that your comments re employment prospects are both accurate and commendable.

 

[capnsensible]

I've no idea how widespread this practice is, nor do I particularly care.

But in two particular instances I know for sure that YM Offshore qualifications were issued under primarily land based test conditions. It is possible that a boat was hired at some point in Hyde Park although on the day in question I wouldn't have recommended it

Once again I'm not criticising anyone here, the yachting industry is overwhelmingly a merit as opposed to a qualification driven one and it's great to see UK kids getting into and succeeding in their chosen career. In that light I feel certain that your comments re employment prospects are both accurate and commendable.

Please dont take this the wrong way but you have been lied to. Unless you simply wish to encourage further discussion?

 

[capnsensible]

Ok, here goes;

Is it true that you can get a Gibaltarian YMO cert in a Cornflakes packet?

Everyone was a Part 3 once.......

 

[TangaraToo]

Ok, here goes;

Is it true that you can get a Gibaltarian YMO cert in a Cornflakes packet?

I'm fairly certain that is only available in the jumbo box of Weekabix. YM Offshore in Special K and YM Coastal in Sugar Puffs

 

[JumbleDuck]

Again, some misconceptions here. 'Tickets' are not handed out by individuals or school. A candidate is examined under the requirements of the Maritime Coastguard Agency overseen by the RYA as the appointed training organisation.

In Ye Olde Days I am pretty sure only Yachtmaster Offshore was officially backed - it was the "RYA/DoT Yachtmaster Offshore". Does the MCA really care about non commercially-endorseable qualifications?

 

[bitbaltic]

Just wearing an olde guernsey sweater & ploughing the same furrow, hamble to cowes, for 40 years, does not indicate experience or competance!

Hahaha +1. Beautifully put

 

[Giblets]

In Ye Olde Days I am pretty sure only Yachtmaster Offshore was officially backed - it was the "RYA/DoT Yachtmaster Offshore".

It certainly was (at least that's what my certificate says) mind this was back in the Dark Ages (mid-eighties) when we had to tack a coracle to windward!

 

[dom]

Please dont take this the wrong way but you have been lied to.

Ouch, a bit unnecessary old boy! I've little interest in being dragged off into some ad-hominem wonderland, so perhaps best to leave it at this Groucho Marx impasse,

"Who you gonna believe, me or your own lyin eyes?"

Folk can do a lot worse than trusting what they see and seamanship is no exception

 

[capnsensible]

In Ye Olde Days I am pretty sure only Yachtmaster Offshore was officially backed - it was the "RYA/DoT Yachtmaster Offshore". Does the MCA really care about non commercially-endorseable qualifications?

In 1938 at the request of the Admiralty, the Board of Trade began to hold examinations for Yachtmaster Coastal certificates. So it is an old term regenerated! The fee was £1 10 shillings. YMO exam these days is £210.

The RYA took over the exam in the early 1970's. The first YM's were in 1973.

During the 1970's the exam changed from Coastal to YM Offshore. A coastal skipper qualification was then introduced for a lower level of experience and as a stepping stone to YMO. Until 1987, it could be taken as an oral exam following a practical course. The name change to YM Coastal happened in 2010.

So there you have it, some folk do seem to have got things a bit arris about face.

Quite which Gibraltarian breakfast cereal packet top choice was arrived at I sadly have no idea........

 

[prv]

Please dont take this the wrong way but you have been lied to.

Why do you think that dom can't be trusted but every single person in possession of a pad of blank certificates can be?

Nobody's saying that a YM Offshore can be legitimately awarded in the circumstances he describes. He's saying that there are cases where it's awarded illegitimately.

Pete

 

[laika]

But in two particular instances I know for sure that YM Offshore qualifications were issued under primarily land based test conditions.

So is this a rogue examiner or simply an issuer of forged certificates? Were both the instances the same issuer? And were the supplier and the supplied previously known to each other or is there some dubious dark web site for RYA qualifications? Enquiring minds need to know...

[EDIT: Not, I stress, because I'm a potential customer ]

 

[capnsensible]

Wiki

On behalf of the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA), the RYA administers the Yachtmaster Scheme, examines candidates and issues Certificates of Competence. RYA/MCA Certificates of Competence are recognised and respected worldwide.[5

For anyone considering taking one of the tests to demonstrate their competence I can recommend the 'Yachtmaster Handbook' by James Stevens.

But its not compulsory, happily, so for everyone else, enjoy your sailing!

 

[capnsensible]

Why do you think that dom can't be trusted but every single person in possession of a pad of blank certificates can be?

Nobody's saying that a YM Offshore can be legitimately awarded in the circumstances he describes. He's saying that there are cases where it's awarded illegitimately.

Pete

Its quite simple. There are no blank pads. A candidate is assessed by a qualified examiner. His report is passed to the RYA headquarters where a certificate is subsequently issued.

He has been taken for a ride.

Dont shoot the messenger.

 

[Giblets]

Why do you think that dom can't be trusted but every single person in possession of a pad of blank certificates can be?

Nobody's saying that a YM Offshore can be legitimately awarded in the circumstances he describes. He's saying that there are cases where it's awarded illegitimately.

Pete

A very similar situation happens in the gas industry with hooky Landlord's Gas Safety Certificates . Buy a pad of certificates from the local plumber's merchant, get the name and Gas Safe Reg No from any passing engineer's van and there you go. (Although I believe the RYA Certificates are numbered and, in theory, should be traceable.)

 

[capnsensible]

All I can think of is that Dom has got his wires crossed with the very old way of getting an ICC. The dodgy door to that was firmly shut years ago.

 

[dom]

So is this a rogue examiner or simply an issuer of forged certificates? Were both the instances the same issuer? And were the supplier and the supplied previously known to each other or is there some dubious dark web site for RYA qualifications? Enquiring minds need to know...

[EDIT: Not, I stress, because I'm a potential customer ]

To be honest I'm hesitating to use words like rogue, but it's a fair question and I know for certain that the instructor in question knew one of the students very well and the said student can't half punt a boat around a few yellow floaty things! I'd better stop there, but I would certainly say he's a gifted sailor.

Love the imagery through of a dark-web where blokes furtively pass brown envelopes in return for 'dodgy' YM badges If only we lived in such innocent times :ambivalence:

 

[Blue Sunray]

I know excellent sailors from both camps, who I would be happy to trust family with, but also am aware of those who I wouldn't. Just wearing an olde guernsey sweater & ploughing the same furrow, hamble to cowes, for 40 years, does not indicate experience or competance!

:encouragement:

 

[prv]

Its quite simple. There are no blank pads. A candidate is assessed by a qualified examiner. His report is passed to the RYA headquarters where a certificate is subsequently issued.

And so what's to stop the qualified examiner writing up a wholly fictional report from time to time and sending it in? I know the overwhelming majority of them are upstanding chaps who would never dream of doing such a thing, but it only takes one. How can you be so utterly, utterly certain that this never happens?

Dont shoot the messenger.

I might say the same thing. You're being rather rude to dom based on little more than your own horror at the potential dishonesty of an unknown colleague.

Pete

 

[capnsensible]

And so what's to stop the qualified examiner writing up a wholly fictional report from time to time and sending it in? I know the overwhelming majority of them are upstanding chaps who would never dream of doing such a thing, but it only takes one. How can you be so utterly, utterly certain that this never happens?



I might say the same thing. You're being rather rude to dom based on little more than your own horror at the potential dishonesty of an unknown colleague.

Pete

Entirely possible but a likely chance of near zero.

The point once again is that Instructors do not issue these certificates. That is not being rude to Dom but pointing out that someone has told him porkies. Which seem to be believed by others too.

Well, thats their choice. But its not how the scheme works.

 

[jonjo]

Why are so many citizens of a bankrupt nation determined to undermine a business development that might establish RYA YachtMaster as a global brand that will in turn lead to extra income and onshore tax revenue. Were they also angry about pile mooring experience being dropped from the syllabus?