RYA - lost the plot?

[capnsensible]

I don't know, but whether or not they held a Yachtmaster^TM certificate would make no difference to my decision. Like a car with an MOT, a sailor with a Yachtmaster^TM only has to meet a limited number of criteria on one day.



Ah, you kids.

Coastal Skipper practical used to be an exam. Some years ago they rebranded that as Yachtmaster Coastal and made Coastal Skipper the practical course completion certificate.

No and no.

A candidate for the Yachtmaster Offshore exam has to also meet the entry requirements of 2500 miles, half tidal. 5 passages over 60 miles, 2 overnight, 2 as skipper. 50 days on board. Additionally, the candidate requires a Short Range Radio certificate and a valid first aid certificate.

Then and only then can the candidate take the exam to demonstrate their ability. Its not easy.

Secondly, the name change was exactly that. There is a theory course and a practical course at coastal level. There always was a further practical exam. Used to be Coastal Skipper, now Yachtmaster Coastal. It was designed to prevent confusion for anyone who bothered to lok it up on the RYA training website or look at G158 Yachtmaster Scheme Syllabus and Logbook. There are some mythbusters in there for sure.

Finally, regarding fast track gripes, my direct experience is that the majority are highly motivated and finish as switched on skippers. The exam requirements are the same for everyone, they have achieved theirs over a 17 odd week period that others take ten years to do exactly the same. No distractions, focussed and hard working as for most, their career depends on it.

Many of these go on to commercial vessels with all the responsibility that brings. It aint heart surgery but its not a walk through.

Good luck if you ever consider it yourself!

 

[JumbleDuck]

Secondly, the name change was exactly that. There is a theory course and a practical course at coastal level. There always was a further practical exam. Used to be Coastal Skipper, now Yachtmaster Coastal. It was designed to prevent confusion for anyone who bothered to lok it up on the RYA training website or look at G158 Yachtmaster Scheme Syllabus and Logbook.

What confusion was solved by renaming Coastal Skipper to Yachtmaster^TM Coastal?

 

[Angele]

What confusion was solved by renaming Coastal Skipper to Yachtmaster^TM Coastal?

The fact that there was both a course, for which you got a course completion certificate, and a practical exam (which got you the certificate of competence). Different things, but both were commonly referred to as Coastal Skipper. I know a couple of people who thought of themselves as Coastal Skippers - they had done the 5 day course, but not the exam. So, in my view, they weren't.

The RYA clarified that when they changed the exam to Yachtmaster Coastal.

And I don't think it devalues YM Offshore in any way, so long as people understand the RYA training/qualification structure.

 

[capnsensible]

What confusion was solved by renaming Coastal Skipper to Yachtmaster^TM Coastal?

People were always getting mixed up with the Coastal Practical course and the Coastal Skipper exam. It seems the cure has yet to work.....

 

[alant]

I had no idea there was an emergency war situation threatening the entire fabric of society, our lives and our country unless we can whip up some pretend Yachtmasters !

Have Sunsail finally shown their true colours and applied the Swastika to their Heinkel/Bav/Jens ?

I just think criticising people who have made it thru an intense training programme, without any understanding of their eventual capability, is wrong. What makes you think that people who have grey/no hair & claim sailing expertise at the yachtclub bar, are any better. Coming off a course, with the intention to continue learning, is a better prospect than someone who continues using badly learnt 'bad habits' but is so called "experienced".
I know excellent sailors from both camps, who I would be happy to trust family with, but also am aware of those who I wouldn't. Just wearing an olde guernsey sweater & ploughing the same furrow, hamble to cowes, for 40 years, does not indicate experience or competance!

 

[dom]

The industry also understand the 'fast track' characters.
There are people out there who have done the fast track, then worked their way up from deckhand on a yacht. Two years later they are very good sailors with a lot of miles and a lot of practical experience.

The system works quite well for those who need it to work.
The pro's need a baseline qualification system, as well as experience.
People like us (amateurs) don't really need it. So if doesn't entirely work for us, we can just leave it alone.

I think that's right and as you say it all seems to work fine in practice.

To be fair to the fast-track mob they often put in a few hard weeks work and I've seen quite a number of them being drilled by ultra-competent instructors. Many of these newly minted YMs then head off to pursue a career in the industry and good on them!

Indeed, in some ways the fast-trackers are better than the individuals/schools who hand out YM Coastal and Offshore tickets on a 'no-test' basis. However, even this is not a problem as the YM certificate is not recognised anywhere in the way for example a Spanish heart surgeon's qualifications would be accepted by the NHS.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The fact that there was both a course, for which you got a course completion certificate, and a practical exam (which got you the certificate of competence). Different things, but both were commonly referred to as Coastal Skipper. I know a couple of people who thought of themselves as Coastal Skippers - they had done the 5 day course, but not the exam. So, in my view, they weren't.

The RYA clarified that when they changed the exam to Yachtmaster Coastal.

OK, fair enough. Is that when Day Skipper (Practical) became a course rather than a test.

 

[dom]

Just wearing an olde guernsey sweater & ploughing the same furrow, hamble to cowes, for 40 years, does not indicate experience or competance!

Quite, still hitting the Brambles Bank after 40 odd years is not good

 

[Angele]

OK, fair enough. Is that when Day Skipper (Practical) became a course rather than a test.

I did my DS practical more than a decade ago. There was the possibility back then of failing to be awarded your course completion certificate if you failed to grasp the concept and/or pull them off, but I think that was pretty rare. Certainly no exam for the practical (unlike the theory).

When I did DS, the Coastal Course and Exam were still both called Coastal Skipper. The rebranding of the latter to YM Coastal is more recent than that.

Was there ever an exam on DS Practical?

 

[Angele]

Just wearing an olde guernsey sweater & ploughing the same furrow, hamble to cowes, for 40 years, does not indicate experience or competance!

Quite, still hitting the Brambles Bank after 40 odd years is not good

Surely, after doing it for 40 years, you would have ploughed a nice furrow.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Was there ever an exam on DS Practical?

I think there was, just as there was an exam for DS Theory.

 

[laika]

Is it my imagination or was "Yachtmaster Coastal" "Yachtmaster Inshore" in the 80s before it was Coastal Skipper? This was long before I ever stepped foot on a sailing boat but I remember a friend telling me about the RYA exams.

Indeed, in some ways the fast-trackers are better than the individuals/schools who hand out YM Coastal and Offshore tickets on a 'no-test' basis.

That claim was made in another thread recently. Is this a widely recognised problem or one of those thing that ageing misanthropes grumble about in the bar? I'm not even sure why anyone would want a fake YM ticket. It's not like it's an instant gateway to employment riches.

 

[Giblets]

Is this a widely recognised problem or one of those thing that ageing misanthropes grumble about in the bar?

Not only in the bar but on here as well!!!

 

[Seajet]

If any school hands out no-test tickets for qualifications like Coastal Skipper and Yachtmaster Offshore etc - or whatever they're called now - the RYA should jump all over them.

When I did my YM offshore in 1992 with the excellent but sadly gone Solent School of Yachting, the instructors were all absolute top notch, way beyond YM Ocean grade - at least 2 of the 3 I met were Master Mariner big ship & tall ship skippers - but for the 2 day exam they got off and an independent examiner came aboard; I remember in my case his separate fee was £80.

 

[dom]

Is this a widely recognised problem or one of those thing that ageing misanthropes grumble about in the bar? I'm not even sure why anyone would want a fake YM ticket. It's not like it's an instant gateway to employment riches.

I've no idea how prevalent it is, although I suspect it's a non-problem either way as nobody treats the YM qualification in the same way as for example a medical one. That's why 'fast-trackers' pursuing a career in the business typically start at the bottom of the ladder, in contrast to say a doctor who might walk straight in as a junior surgeon. BTW I'm not criticising these kids in any way as it would be seriously unfair to push them through hoops for three years unless the eventual qualification afforded them a ticket straight to the bridge.

Incidentally, the couple of people I know who got no-test Yactmasters was simply to hire a boat of a size that the company would not normally bareboat to beginners, that's all.

 

[Sandy Bottom]

If any school hands out no-test tickets for qualifications like Coastal Skipper and Yachtmaster Offshore etc - or whatever they're called now - the RYA should jump all over them.

When I did my YM offshore in 1992 with the excellent but sadly gone Solent School of Yachting, the instructors were all absolute top notch, way beyond YM Ocean grade - at least 2 of the 3 I met were Master Mariner big ship & tall ship skippers - but for the 2 day exam they got off and an independent examiner came aboard; I remember in my case his separate fee was £80.

I left SSY as an instructor in March 1992 (?) - it went rapidly downhill after that!

 

[dom]

[/COLOR]

I left SSY as an instructor in March 1992 (?) - it went rapidly downhill after that!

As a matter of interest it was around that time my ex-wife learnt to sail with a charming chap in the Brighton Sea School (?) who went by the name of Commander James Douse He was the type of character one could parachute into a far flung outpost of the Commonwealth and within a day everyone would love him!

Just wondering if you ever came across him and if he's still in the business?

 

[capnsensible]

Indeed, in some ways the fast-trackers are better than the individuals/schools who hand out YM Coastal and Offshore tickets on a 'no-test' basis. However, even this is not a problem as the YM certificate is not recognised anywhere in the way for example a Spanish heart surgeon's qualifications would be accepted by the NHS.

Again, some misconceptions here. 'Tickets' are not handed out by individuals or school. A candidate is examined under the requirements of the Maritime Coastguard Agency overseen by the RYA as the appointed training organisation.

Coastal and Day Skipper courses are and have always been courses that lead to a completion certificate when successfully completed. There are pre course recommended experience levels but not everyone arrives for a course prepared. The course lasts five days on average with structure and content. Not everyone is able to asimilate all of the knowledge in that time and may require more. But in general it is straitforward and in most peoples ability.

A YM Offshore certificate is recognised world wide as the base standard throughout the Marine Industry. Many students are from outside the UK who need the pass in order to obtain a job even as a deckhand. It most certainly it is the path to employment.

I have worked in sail training for the last 20 years and Im happy to answer any questions you may have. Its nice to be able to respond to the heresay and guesswork. In exactly the same way as asking any pro about their job to get the true dit!

Fire away. :encouragement:

 

[capnsensible]

Incidentally, the couple of people I know who got no-test Yactmasters was simply to hire a boat of a size that the company would not normally bareboat to beginners, that's all.

There is no such thing. They are pulling your pudding.

 

[Sandy Bottom]

Again, some misconceptions here. 'Tickets' are not handed out by individuals or school. A candidate is examined under the requirements of the Maritime Coastguard Agency overseen by the RYA as the appointed training organisation.

Coastal and Day Skipper courses are and have always been courses that lead to a completion certificate when successfully completed. There are pre course recommended experience levels but not everyone arrives for a course prepared. The course lasts five days on average with structure and content. Not everyone is able to asimilate all of the knowledge in that time and may require more. But in general it is straitforward and in most peoples ability.

A YM Offshore certificate is recognised world wide as the base standard throughout the Marine Industry. Many students are from outside the UK who need the pass in order to obtain a job even as a deckhand. It most certainly it is the path to employment.

I have worked in sail training for the last 20 years and Im happy to answer any questions you may have. Its nice to be able to respond to the heresay and guesswork. In exactly the same way as asking any pro about their job to get the true dit!

Fire away. :encouragement:

Ok, here goes;

Is it true that you can get a Gibaltarian YMO cert in a Cornflakes packet?