RYA Certs an idea...

[onesea]

OK there are constantly questions about RYA courses and there quality...

Just an idea, how about changing the name of the certs and leaving the syllabuses alone?

Competent crew = Basic Crew =Knows the basics but has very little experience needs time to get full competence.

Day Skipper = Able Helm = Should have ability to days sail a given boat in familiar waters/ none to challenging situations.

Coastal Skipper = Basic Skipper = Capable of .......

Yacht Master = Yacht Master

There could be secondary certs awarded on sending logbooks showing days experience etc Competences signed by authorised persons YM's Sailing club Officers, RYA instructors etc.

Competent crew, Competent Helm, Able Skipper.

Just an idea's...

In my mind it would "position" RYA certificates in a more realistic light.

Oh and as always increase the sea time requirements before you can get the full skippers licences..

 

[Koeketiene]

As a license/certificate is not compulsory/required, what does it matter what the RYA tickets are called?

 

[rotrax]

Please dont start this again! It's what we have and it does the job. Unless you choose, as some do, to read more into what the tickets have been awarded for they are fine as they are. In my opinion of course.............

 

[AMCD300]

And another thing...........

 

[prv]

All you'd do is confuse matters as people mixed the old and new names.

What problem are you trying to solve, anyway?

Pete

 

[Poignard]

All you'd do is confuse matters as people mixed the old and new names.

What problem are you trying to solve, anyway?

Pete

+1

If it aint broke etc.

 

[Sandy]

There fine where they are; we all know what they mean. We all make our own judgement about what tasks we give people.

 

[capnsensible]

The thing I find dissapointing is this new idea of combining DS theory and practical in 9 days. 10% of the course has vanished!

Are people better sailors or is it a marketing scam??

 

[Koeketiene]

The thing I find dissapointing is this new idea of combining DS theory and practical in 9 days. 10% of the course has vanished!

Are people better sailors or is it a marketing scam??

It's so that the course can be run over one week iso two.
SAT-SUN-MON-TUE-WED-THU-FRI-SAT-SUN -> 9 days, but the punters only need to take one week (5 days) off work.
And the school now has a more flexible schedule.
Weather's nice: some practical stuff on the boat.
Weather's ****: some theory in the classroom.

 

[capnsensible]

It's so that the course can be run over one week iso two.
SAT-SUN-MON-TUE-WED-THU-FRI-SAT-SUN -> 9 days, but the punters only need to take one week (5 days) off work.
And the school now has a more flexible schedule.
Weather's nice: some practical stuff on the boat.
Weather's ****: some theory in the classroom.

Mmm. So its about marketing.

Consider this:

A practical course must be a minimum of 116 hours and cover a minimum of 100 miles. How can that be shortened?

The theory course requires a minimum of 40 hours instruction plus exam time.

So unless the students are subjected to over 10 hours a day theory, not including breaks, then some creative accounting is going on.

So unless the RYA course managers adjust the requirements then the scammers are operating outside the box to increase profits at the expense of student ability.

Sucks, eh?

Why can't students take the necessary time and do it properly? I, and tens of thousands of others did and do.

And yes, internally in the RYA there are a couple of people that know exactly how I feel about this.....

The RYA has, I believe, the best cruising scheme around, thousands of overseas students a year tends to prove that. The 'get there quick' sharp operators are standing into danger of messing that up, I'm afraid.

 

[Searush]

Here's your dummy back.


Anyway, isn't there some time allowed for duplication/ repetition/ revision when taken as 2 courses? The RYA have offered punters 2 ways of doing the course - good on them, well done. One chooses the best one for your needs, what's to complain about?

I get the impression you feel your 2 courses are devalued by a single end to ender, Lord only knows why, the difference between any two instructors or schools will probably exceed the difference between 2 one weeker's & a single 9 dayer.

 

[Talulah]

A practical course must be a minimum of 116 hours and cover a minimum of 100 miles. How can that be shortened?

The theory course requires a minimum of 40 hours instruction plus exam time.

So unless the students are subjected to over 10 hours a day theory, not including breaks, then some creative accounting is going on.

So unless the RYA course managers adjust the requirements then the scammers are operating outside the box to increase profits at the expense of student ability.

Some of the theory can be covered off during the practical course. i.e. whilst moored up.
The theory doesn't stop just because you've gone sailing.

 

[wot]

A practical course must be a minimum of 116 hours and cover a minimum of 100 miles.
The theory course requires a minimum of 40 hours instruction plus exam time.

And where did it ever state that they must be carried sequentially? I did my DS in the 'old fashioned way' and looking back can see no reason why it could not have carried out in an integrated fashion. Indeed aspects of the overall course would probably have been better delivered in this fashion.

Why can't students take the necessary time and do it properly? I, and tens of thousands of others did and do.

And some people can't - for a variety of reasons. By limiting the instructional model to a specific type you are disadvantaging a (possibly large) section of the population.
Different people learn in different ways and to cater for those that wish to learn, a variety of systems are needed to deliver the instruction.
Changing the mode of delivery does not imply that the contents of a lesson has been dumbed down. That is a different issue altogether.

 

[onesea]

It's so that the course can be run over one week iso two.
SAT-SUN-MON-TUE-WED-THU-FRI-SAT-SUN -> 9 days, but the punters only need to take one week (5 days) off work.
And the school now has a more flexible schedule.
Weather's nice: some practical stuff on the boat.
Weather's ****: some theory in the classroom.

9 Days to learn to the rules, navigation, tides, compass work, boat handling, power and sail, mooring, anchoring, MOB, gas safety, Meteorology, equipment, engine checks, safety equipment, deck work, plus achieve the required mileage etc...

All you'd do is confuse matters as people mixed the old and new names.

What problem are you trying to solve, anyway?

Pete

No problem nothing is wrong if you believe that all the above is perfectly sensible and achievable

 

[Searush]

9 Days to learn to the rules, navigation, tides, compass work, boat handling, power and sail, mooring, anchoring, MOB, gas safety, Meteorology, equipment, engine checks, safety equipment, deck work, plus achieve the required mileage etc...

(snip):

There's loads of time on a passage to go over classroom work relevant to the actual passage. The lessons directly relate to what is happening on the boat in real time - how much better is that than hanging round in a classroom waiting for a slower person to understand a lesson you've already done?

9 days is loads of time for most people, if you lack confidence that it is enough for you, just take the 2 seperate courses. Repetition is valuable for helping stuff to stick.


I can't believe I'm making this case for the RYA, I've only ever done the RYA course as a self-teach package. But the teaching issues are obvious to me as an ex-lecturer & still a boaty person.

 

[capnsensible]

Here's your dummy back.


Anyway, isn't there some time allowed for duplication/ repetition/ revision when taken as 2 courses? The RYA have offered punters 2 ways of doing the course - good on them, well done. One chooses the best one for your needs, what's to complain about?

I get the impression you feel your 2 courses are devalued by a single end to ender, Lord only knows why, the difference between any two instructors or schools will probably exceed the difference between 2 one weeker's & a single 9 dayer.

Thank you for the dummy

Several points. The RYA has not provided 2 ways. The sharp chaps have called the shots and have been allowed to get away with it.

My point is that the courses at all levels are designed to be delivered in a timescale that allows the best learning for the majority. Now there are corners being cut outside the spirit of the scheme to make a buck.

Please do not imagine this 9 day stuff is being driven, in the slightest, but customer learning. Its all about hand down yer trousers.

 

[capnsensible]

Some of the theory can be covered off during the practical course. i.e. whilst moored up.
The theory doesn't stop just because you've gone sailing.

Thank you for your kind advice

 

[capnsensible]

And where did it ever state that they must be carried sequentially?

To expand, that is certainly not my suggestion at all. 20 odd years experience has proved to me that for the vast majority of students, 10 days is barely enough without hacking bits off.

How many times do you hear complaints about shoddy seamanship on this forum?

It is certainly unessesary to do the courses together, but an obvious advantage if they are. Its all about time, eh?

 

[capnsensible]

There's loads of time on a passage to go over classroom work relevant to the actual passage. The lessons directly relate to what is happening on the boat in real time - how much better is that than hanging round in a classroom waiting for a slower person to understand a lesson you've already done?

9 days is loads of time for most people, if you lack confidence that it is enough for you, just take the 2 seperate courses. Repetition is valuable for helping stuff to stick.


I can't believe I'm making this case for the RYA, I've only ever done the RYA course as a self-teach package. But the teaching issues are obvious to me as an ex-lecturer & still a boaty person.

Sorry searush, just dont agree. 5 days for theory is barely enough for most students. Consider also that in your training career, how often were your classes held outdoors in the cold and rain, with tired people suffering from motion sickness? Can be done but it aint easy.

 

[Searush]

Thank you for the dummy

Several points. The RYA has not provided 2 ways. The sharp chaps have called the shots and have been allowed to get away with it.

My point is that the courses at all levels are designed to be delivered in a timescale that allows the best learning for the majority. Now there are corners being cut outside the spirit of the scheme to make a buck.

Please do not imagine this 9 day stuff is being driven, in the slightest, but customer learning. Its all about hand down yer trousers.

Can't comment on any of that, but I really do like the idea of a 9-day practical & theory combined. You are not faffing about with pointless classroom exercises, you are doing it for real - that is such a motivator. You see the outcome as you are making the passage - best possible feedback there is.

Light ID - done for real on a night passage, colregs, again applied as it happens. How can it not be good? Do it in a classroom & you will forget half of it if you don't follow up with the practical quickly. Do it for real & it really does stick.

And kindly take your hand out of my trousers - err, unless you are female.