RTIR - only 900 entered

[bedouin]

Not sure if it is related but my feeling is that IRC is not a particularly attractive system for all but the most dedicated racers. That harks back to the discussion about cruiser/racers.

 

[flaming]

Anyway, with 1200 or so boats entered, RTIR is still a stunning success compared to everything else.
Just because it had a boom time when it was bigger still, we should not lose sight of the big success that it is.

Very true.

 

[Iain C]

Possibly sailing racing generally?
A lot of dinghy fleets are struggling for numbers, yet new boats are being sold and new classes are being established.
A lot of club dinghy fleets have a high proportion of people who in previous generations might have progressed to yacht racing. Quite a few in our club have done a bit of yacht racing and reverted to dinghies.

Anyway, with 1200 or so boats entered, RTIR is still a stunning success compared to everything else.
Just because it had a boom time when it was bigger still, we should not lose sight of the big success that it is.

I think that applies to sailing generally, just because it used to be more fashionable, and used to have more participation, does not mean it isn't great now.

Yep, agree with all of that, although off the top of my head and with "gut feel" I'm not seeing much from the new dinghy classes, (RS Aero expected), it's still the older classes which dominate IMHO. Dinghy sailing certainly seems to be in decline from the club and open numbers I see, and I'm afraid I blame the RYA medal machine for that to a certain extent. Surely there should be droves of youth sailors coming out of this and buying up cheap £1500 49ers for superb "bang for buck" sailing but I just don't see it, and of course they also have no interests in Fireballs/505s etc. When I joined my local sailing club back in 2001 I was the youngest regular Fireball sailor, and sadly I think that's still the case!

 

[lw395]

Yep, agree with all of that, although off the top of my head and with "gut feel" I'm not seeing much from the new dinghy classes, (RS Aero expected), it's still the older classes which dominate IMHO. Dinghy sailing certainly seems to be in decline from the club and open numbers I see, and I'm afraid I blame the RYA medal machine for that to a certain extent. Surely there should be droves of youth sailors coming out of this and buying up cheap £1500 49ers for superb "bang for buck" sailing but I just don't see it, and of course they also have no interests in Fireballs/505s etc. When I joined my local sailing club back in 2001 I was the youngest regular Fireball sailor, and sadly I think that's still the case!

The aero is a notable new class. The D-Zero seems to be doing Ok as well (no pun intended), 40 boats at the nationals?
The H2 has sold a reasonable number.
Quite a few classes have launched this century and sold fairly well compared to established classes.
But the old classes with proper circuits still have their following, e.g. Solo, Fireball, Merlin.
A lotof clubs seem to have plenty of members with boats, but the boats are in the boat park, not on the start line.

It's hard enough finding enough people to have a decent race against at the commitment level of dinghies. Say one day a week of people's time, a few £k for a reasonable boat and a budget of say £1k a year. When you need multiple people for longer, and many times the budget, it's unlikely to be easier.
I think 'cruiser racing' is in danger of distancing itself too far from the the people who own a cruiser for cruising and can handle the add-on costs of some racing.
It seems to mostly have become about boats which are pure racers. Overgrown dinghies, mostly sailing dinghy courses.
The actual racing in yachts is quite often not very good.
There is the same problem as with handicap racing in dinghies, the yardstick mechanisms are struggling to cope with the disparate performance vs windstrength and course of various boats, and people no longer respect ratings as fair.
Unfortunately, while it's possible to flog enough D-zeroes to get 42 competitive boats at a Nationals, your chances of putting a decent new one design yacht fleet on a start line are not high. Apart from dear old Sunsail of course.

 

[Bobc]

And yet there are still over 100 boats doing the Tour Des Ports again this year, mainly in cruiser/racers.

Could the 240 Euro entry fee (that's £200 to cover 4 crew, entry fees, all your mooring fees for nearly 2 weeks, food, beer, parties) be a reason perhaps? If the RTIR ws about £30 to enter, I might consider doing it again, but I can't bring myself to pay over £100 to sail around the IoW.

 

[lw395]

And yet there are still over 100 boats doing the Tour Des Ports again this year, mainly in cruiser/racers.

Could the 240 Euro entry fee (that's £200 to cover 4 crew, entry fees, all your mooring fees for nearly 2 weeks, food, beer, parties) be a reason perhaps? If the RTIR ws about £30 to enter, I might consider doing it again, but I can't bring myself to pay over £100 to sail around the IoW.

£130 or so is a fair amount of money, but we looked at it in terms of a good day out for us and several mates. Those mates probably wined and dined us in return. So long as you have mates who want to do it, it's not such bad value. A lot of mickey mouse club races cost over a tenner to enter and only last an hour or two.

 

[flaming]

T
It's hard enough finding enough people to have a decent race against at the commitment level of dinghies. Say one day a week of people's time, a few £k for a reasonable boat and a budget of say £1k a year. When you need multiple people for longer, and many times the budget, it's unlikely to be easier.

Actually, finding crew has never been easier. The issue has become the lack of owners. There just have not been new owners coming into the fleet.

I think 'cruiser racing' is in danger of distancing itself too far from the the people who own a cruiser for cruising and can handle the add-on costs of some racing.
It seems to mostly have become about boats which are pure racers. Overgrown dinghies, mostly sailing dinghy courses.

Agree, and I started 2 threads on this over in racing land! Though I think this is less to do with race boats, and more to do with the way that modern cruising boats are completely unsuited to race.

The actual racing in yachts is quite often not very good.

Can't agree with that. I've had some fantastic racing in yachts. Super close and all down to who can get 9 people working together the best at the corners.

 

[lw395]

Actually, finding crew has never been easier. The issue has become the lack of owners. There just have not been new owners coming into the fleet.

.

I don't find it at all surprising that it's a problem to find owners to provide yachts at today's prices.
You say it's easy to find crew, but that may be less true if you don't have a big budget and a shiny fashionable raceboat.
Probably harder still if you want them to pay their share of the spinnaker budget?
The top boats have always been able to get plenty of crew. Which just makes the racing even more biased towards big money.

 

[flaming]

I don't find it at all surprising that it's a problem to find owners to provide yachts at today's prices.
You say it's easy to find crew, but that may be less true if you don't have a big budget and a shiny fashionable raceboat.
Probably harder still if you want them to pay their share of the spinnaker budget?
The top boats have always been able to get plenty of crew. Which just makes the racing even more biased towards big money.

I'm sailing a 12 year old Elan. It's not exactly a shiny new race boat.... I've been doing the crew management for about 10 years, at times that has been hard work, even when the boat was comparatively new and shiny, but right now it's never been easier.

 

[lw395]

I'm sailing a 12 year old Elan. It's not exactly a shiny new race boat.... I've been doing the crew management for about 10 years, at times that has been hard work, even when the boat was comparatively new and shiny, but right now it's never been easier.

But how easy would it be for say a mid fleet helm with a similar aged boat find such a crew from scratch?
It's the same in dinghies, some people have long established crewing relationships and don't have a problem, but for others it's catch 22.
You need a good regular crew to do well, and you'll be lucky to find a good regular crew if you are an unknown who doesn't win any races.

 

[flaming]

But how easy would it be for say a mid fleet helm with a similar aged boat find such a crew from scratch?
It's the same in dinghies, some people have long established crewing relationships and don't have a problem, but for others it's catch 22.
You need a good regular crew to do well, and you'll be lucky to find a good regular crew if you are an unknown who doesn't win any races.

Actually it's easy. This is what social media excels at. Have a look at the Solent sailors FB pages. Any add for a crew wanted gets tons of replies.

 

[Kerenza]

Well I've got a boat and have raced her for the past few years.
Given up now, as I can't raise a regular crew, and I can go with other skippers and enable them to overcome their shortage.
Running a crew of 11 was a time consuming and frustrating experience.

 

[jac]

I think trying to pin it on one thing is asking a bit much, it's a combination of things.

There are more opportunities for leisure activity yet more pressure on time so fewer people enter the sport on a serious basis.
There are now no small new yachts being launched - just 35 foot plus by the big brands so cost to enter with something new is higher, smaller makers don't have the scale to put enough boats into the water to develop a one design fleet.
Exotic materials, larger boats make the cost much higher so fewer can afford to buy a new competitive boat.
Exotics and new gear make boats much faster than the same boat with older cruising sails so wealth will win and dissuades new entrants
The rules have insisted on additional "safety" gear that again is a barrier to entry for occasional racers.
Larger boats need larger crews which take more management and means reduced opportunity to sail only with people you like.

Dinghies / keelboats are a cheaper option but are not suitable for modern cruising so I can see why someone who fancies a bit of racing one evening a week might just go and buy a dinghy for a couple of thousand and do some club dinghy racing.


What i could see would be something like the Old Gaffers racing where it's more about fun and enjoying sailing, is accessible to family & friends crews but where the hotshots are excluded.

 

[bdh198]

Actually it's easy. This is what social media excels at. Have a look at the Solent sailors FB pages. Any add for a crew wanted gets tons of replies.

Well I've got a boat and have raced her for the past few years.
Given up now, as I can't raise a regular crew, and I can go with other skippers and enable them to overcome their shortage.
Running a crew of 11 was a time consuming and frustrating experience.

It's certainly easier to find people willing to crew thanks to social media; however, that is very different from being able to find reliable and consistent crew who are willing to sign up to a season or series of races, and who all get along - and that's what you need to start moving from the back of the fleet. Trouble with social media is that those decent crew who can commit are able to be very selective in choosing a yacht or a team who are likely to be competing at the front of the fleet.

I've sailed with a couple of new entrants to yacht racing in the Solent in recent years, and even where there is an exciting new boat, finding a reliable and consistent crew is always one of the most difficult tasks.

 

[flaming]

Well I've got a boat and have raced her for the past few years.
Given up now, as I can't raise a regular crew, and I can go with other skippers and enable them to overcome their shortage.
Running a crew of 11 was a time consuming and frustrating experience.

Is this Solent based?

 

[flaming]

I've sailed with a couple of new entrants to yacht racing in the Solent in recent years, and even where there is an exciting new boat, finding a reliable and consistent crew is always one of the most difficult tasks.

What I've seen is that if you get one good person interested they tend to bring people with them.

 

[dunedin]

So according to the RTIR website this morning as the fleet sails round the answer is 1204 entries.
Not the biggest fleet for RTIR, but still massively the biggest sailing boat race in the UK. Hope mist get round before the time limit

 

[alant]

So according to the RTIR website this morning as the fleet sails round the answer is 1204 entries.
Not the biggest fleet for RTIR, but still massively the biggest sailing boat race in the UK. Hope mist get round before the time limit

There was no mist, little wind, then on nose to needles, so many retirements.