Triassic
Well-Known Member
That's basically what I was saying, MOCRA will give you a rating for the RTI. Have you contacted their rating officer Simon Forbes, there's a link in the NOR.
RTIR - only 900 entered
- Thread starter PhillM
- Start date
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
Yes, I did and was referred to the rating page on the web site.
I couldn't see any links for a simple rating for the RTIR.. just the full measured MOCRA rating.
I couldn't see any links for a simple rating for the RTIR.. just the full measured MOCRA rating.
Triassic
Well-Known Member
Tom, I've just swopped e-mails with Simon, he's confirmed my understanding is correct and you just have to drop him an e-mail. Address is in the NOR, alternatively.......
simonforbes3@gmail.com
Good luck.
simonforbes3@gmail.com
Good luck.
flaming
Well-Known Member
With the standard rate entries now closed IRC is about 100 boats light at 340 entered, but ISC looks the same as last year at 649.
I suspect it will still be a fun day out...
alant
Well-Known Member
Hope so, I'm in SIL's boat.
lw395
Well-Known Member
How many years ago was we when we first said 'OMG there's 1,000 boats'?
It seems like more than plenty of boats.
Tomaret
Well-Known Member
With a 40% fall in participation since the 2011 event, if it had been a boat show it would have been cancelled by now?.
Giving it a miss this year because I thought we’d be elsewhere with the boat (turns out we’ll just be elsewhere) but I’d be interested to know whether fewer entries makes Cowes less packed (rafted 6 out at Shepherd’s last year) or fewer boats will travel from further afield.
Hope all participants get the wind they want and the placing they deserve. I’m beginning to think I’ll miss not being there.
maby
Well-Known Member
That depends on how you present it. Finishing 100th sounds better than 200th but finishing 100th out of 110 is a lot less impressive than 200th out of 500!
bedouin
Well-Known Member
Wasn't there a bit of a push to get 2000 boats in year 2000? I think they came a couple of hundred short but I am sure there were around 1700-1800 for a few years around that time
Iain C
Well-Known Member
1195 entries now...even with the late surge it still seems like numbers are waaaay down from a few years ago.
I'm a big fan of the race and have done it for the last decade, but I think things need to change a bit or there will be a further steady loss of competitors. And I'm talking here about your average cruising yottie for whom the RTIR is potentially the only race of the year. When JPMAM sponsored it, you'd get your tankard, you'd get your free water taxi, you'd get your RTI snood, you'd get a proper race pack, and you'd get your stickers. OK, so the stickers were only advertising JPMAM but at least it made you feel like a proper race boat for one weekend a year. And whilst I'm all for a paperless society, there's something to be said for having the SIs as a readily available book on board, rather than having to faff around with a phone whilst trying to sail. Add on the increased entry fee (that seems to hurt the smaller, mid 30 foot, 4-5 crew bracket hardest) and when the envelope (not sealed!) landed on the door mat with nothing but a flag and a piece of paper my instant reaction was "erm, why am I bothering?". Chuck in the timeout rules plus the wind limit stuff and it really doesn't seem so good.
I do think the ISC need to re-instate the "special/exciting" feeling that you used to get or they risk more people voting with their feet. In today's Facebooky age all it takes is a no-cost, non racing cruise around the IOW to be organised which could make a further dent in the numbers. Lots of people just want to sail around in company, not hit anything, and take photos of kites anyway!
Don't get me wrong, I love the event, however it just does not feel that it deliverers in the value/special department as it used to, and perception is everything...
I'm a big fan of the race and have done it for the last decade, but I think things need to change a bit or there will be a further steady loss of competitors. And I'm talking here about your average cruising yottie for whom the RTIR is potentially the only race of the year. When JPMAM sponsored it, you'd get your tankard, you'd get your free water taxi, you'd get your RTI snood, you'd get a proper race pack, and you'd get your stickers. OK, so the stickers were only advertising JPMAM but at least it made you feel like a proper race boat for one weekend a year. And whilst I'm all for a paperless society, there's something to be said for having the SIs as a readily available book on board, rather than having to faff around with a phone whilst trying to sail. Add on the increased entry fee (that seems to hurt the smaller, mid 30 foot, 4-5 crew bracket hardest) and when the envelope (not sealed!) landed on the door mat with nothing but a flag and a piece of paper my instant reaction was "erm, why am I bothering?". Chuck in the timeout rules plus the wind limit stuff and it really doesn't seem so good.
I do think the ISC need to re-instate the "special/exciting" feeling that you used to get or they risk more people voting with their feet. In today's Facebooky age all it takes is a no-cost, non racing cruise around the IOW to be organised which could make a further dent in the numbers. Lots of people just want to sail around in company, not hit anything, and take photos of kites anyway!
Don't get me wrong, I love the event, however it just does not feel that it deliverers in the value/special department as it used to, and perception is everything...
lw395
Well-Known Member
It could just be that everybody who is likely to want to enter has 'been there and done that'.
I'm not doing it this year. I really enjoyed the 15 or so times I've done it, but that likely means that next time won't be as good as the best RTIR's we've done.
It's expensive, it's a lot of hassle to get people aboard by silly o'clock, it can be a fiasco with no fall-back plan. It can be stressful sailing in close company with muppets who don't even have a basic grasp of the rules.
The great shame IMHO is there are no other races in a similar vein attracting say a few hunded boats.
flaming
Well-Known Member
But they're not the loss of numbers... The ISC class is actually bigger this year than last. It's the IRC class where numbers are down. We've lost 50 boats from the group this year.
jac
Well-Known Member
Look at how the two classes are holding up against say 5 years ago when 1500 plus was normal. To lose 20% of your entrants in a few years is worrying .
Looking at the overall results books on the RTI website we see:
2017 - 1280
2016 - 1392
2015 - 1534
2014 - 1535
2013 - 1398
2012 - 1580
2011 - 1852
2010 - 1699
2009 - 1734
Numbers now are up to 1197 - i'm sure there will be a very late flurry of late entries between now and Wednesday but I expect 1250 would be good from here.
Something is going wrong for numbers to fall by 30% in 9 years. ( especially as 2009 /10 would have been just after the financial crash and recession when I might have expected fewer people sailing)
Is it linked to the wider reported issue of falling numbers and ageing of participants, slow market to sell boats, mooring vacancies, clubs struggling to recruit members etc
lw395
Well-Known Member
In dinghy racing, it seems increasingly common that a low turnout is blamed on the weather forecast.
The met office gives single figures of mph and shifting all over the place for St Cat's on Saturday.
The met office gives single figures of mph and shifting all over the place for St Cat's on Saturday.
jac
Well-Known Member
That's fine but people enter RTI weeks or even months in advance. There is early bird discount in January. The cost has now shot up for late entries so anyone who didn't want to have to pay the exorbitant last minute cost would have had to commit about 2 weeks before the race - well before a forecast would come out and that hasn't changed.
lw395
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be surprised if some people decided not to bother based on the long range just before the standard entry cut off.
I suspect the real answer is a mix of many things, less people in IRC generally, the novelty having worn off for many previous competitors, high cost. Etc.
It might be interesting to know what sort of entries are reducing, e.g. sailing schools, corporate, local amateurs, boats from further afield, big boats, small boats.....
alant
Well-Known Member
Apart for a sea breeze, unlikely to be much wind.
Iain C
Well-Known Member
Fair point well made. Any idea why?
flaming
Well-Known Member
What is most interesting to me is that a lot of the boats that I spot as "missing" are actually the competitive boats, not the also rans. Maybe there is some fatigue?
But IRC fleets are down across the board. Cowes week entry to date is dire... 88 Boats in the IRC fleet, 155 last year and that was very light.... 185 in 2014.
I've said elsewhere, but it's worth repeating, I think we're due a big reset in yacht racing.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Possibly sailing racing generally?
A lot of dinghy fleets are struggling for numbers, yet new boats are being sold and new classes are being established.
A lot of club dinghy fleets have a high proportion of people who in previous generations might have progressed to yacht racing. Quite a few in our club have done a bit of yacht racing and reverted to dinghies.
Anyway, with 1200 or so boats entered, RTIR is still a stunning success compared to everything else.
Just because it had a boom time when it was bigger still, we should not lose sight of the big success that it is.
I think that applies to sailing generally, just because it used to be more fashionable, and used to have more participation, does not mean it isn't great now.
