Round the Island Race

[PhillM]

Can anyone who did the race sum up what the overall situation with the wind was? I'm interested to get an idea of what the gradient wind was doing and how the sea breezes worked.

We were white fleet with 7.50 start. There was not enough wind to sail over the start, so I motored into the tide by Snowden and on the 1 min, turned off the engine,pointed at the start and passed it about 12 seconds after the gun.

We stayed close until Gurnard then went wider and found more wind towards the centre of the main channel.

Wind picked up as we approached Hurst at about 11 (just like Simon K said it would - apparently it funnels).

Dropped to almost nothing at Needles around 11.45 and stayed that way until about 2. We went wide and stayed out into the tide and from 2 till about 3.30 overtook about 50 boats who were close in.

Wind dropped to nothing and we drifted backwards past St Cathrinines at about 4.30.

At this point we gave up and motored home. Over to others who held on after us.

 

[Hypocacculus]

Engine on 1m before start? tsk, tsk.

We stayed in the middle of the channel to get maximum tide to Hurst as there seemed to be more wind there and were amongst the top 5 of our fleet.

We went relatively wide to St Catherines and passed loads of boats on the inside, and also seemed to be faster than the really outside boats; however, I think they avoided some of the trouble at St Catherines and overhauled us (much grinding of teeth). We were slowed remarkably by the overfalls at St Catherines as the wind was just not enough to push us through the disturbed water - again, we think the advantage was to stay out. We had to fend off another boat when becalmed.

The wind eventually filled in enough to get a spinnaker up. Good spinnaker setting skills vital - we saw our opposition gradually pull away as we struggled with ours. The wind died again off Bembridge, which resulted in huge numbers retiring but we decided not to retire unless it was dead certain we wouldn't make the cut off. I don't know if there was wind further out at this stage. Once we struggled past that (thanks to the tide), the wind filled in again on the back straight - again in hindsight, best to stay in the middle of the channel for both wind and tide. We thought we were far enough out but we could have gone a bit further.

 

[flaming]

Done it 3 times now. Most fun sailing I've ever done.

Any excuse to get this photo out...

RTI 2011. Best day's sailing I can recall.

[/URL]

 

[emsworthy]

Engine on 1m before start? tsk, tsk.

We stayed in the middle of the channel to get maximum tide to Hurst as there seemed to be more wind there and were amongst the top 5 of our fleet.

We went relatively wide to St Catherines and passed loads of boats on the inside, and also seemed to be faster than the really outside boats; however, I think they avoided some of the trouble at St Catherines and overhauled us (much grinding of teeth). We were slowed remarkably by the overfalls at St Catherines as the wind was just not enough to push us through the disturbed water - again, we think the advantage was to stay out. We had to fend off another boat when becalmed.

The wind eventually filled in enough to get a spinnaker up. Good spinnaker setting skills vital - we saw our opposition gradually pull away as we struggled with ours. The wind died again off Bembridge, which resulted in huge numbers retiring but we decided not to retire unless it was dead certain we wouldn't make the cut off. I don't know if there was wind further out at this stage. Once we struggled past that (thanks to the tide), the wind filled in again on the back straight - again in hindsight, best to stay in the middle of the channel for both wind and tide. We thought we were far enough out but we could have gone a bit further.

Were you on the boat with me??!! That's almost exactly how our day panned out too.

 

[st599]

We were white fleet with 7.50 start. There was not enough wind to sail over the start, so I motored into the tide by Snowden and on the 1 min, turned off the engine,pointed at the start and passed it about 12 seconds after the gun.

So you cheated to get a good start. Hardly in the Corinthian spirit.

 

[PhillM]

So you cheated to get a good start. Hardly in the Corinthian spirit.

Sorry, not on purpose. At what point SHOULD the engine have gone off?

I admit to not having digested all of rules and it sounds like I got this wrong. Please educate me.

 

[Giblets]

Used to be 5 minutes before the start gun IIRC.

 

[Hypocacculus]

Sorry, not on purpose. At what point SHOULD the engine have gone off?

I admit to not having digested all of rules and it sounds like I got this wrong. Please educate me.

It's understandable if you are an occasional racer. Engine should be off 10 minutes before start. Edit - oops, correction, 5 mins (used to be 10 mins, old system). Strictly speaking, when the warning flag goes up.

 

[Talulah]

I used to leave the engine on just in case. I wouldn't use it from start time -10 mins but with such a crowded start line it's worth keeping it available just in case.

 

[Hypocacculus]

I used to leave the engine on just in case. I wouldn't use it from start time -10 mins but with such a crowded start line it's worth keeping it available just in case.

I can understand why you would want to do that; unfortunately you lay yourself open to a protest from SV Competitive Barstool who finished after you but saw your exhaust wash at the start. Nobody wants to end the day in the protest room.

 

[Talulah]

I can understand why you would want to do that; unfortunately you lay yourself open to a protest from SV Competitive Barstool who finished after you but saw your exhaust wash at the start. Nobody wants to end the day in the protest room.

I gave up RTIR a few years back. OK as crew on someone elses boat but too stressful as Skipper on own boat.

 

[flaming]

Used to be 5 minutes before the start gun IIRC.

The answer is at your Prep signal, which is 4 minutes unless altered by the SIs. (And basically never is)

The sequence goes like this

5 minutes - warning signal - Class flag up and a sound
4 minutes - Preparatory signal - Prep flag up (either Papa, India, Zulu or black flag - with each having different rules relating to OCS) and a sound
1 minute - Preparatory flag removed and a sound
start - class flag removed and a sound.

Some events use Foxtrot to mean "warning signal in x minutes" and usually combine that with the first reading of a course.

 

[Pinnacle]

The answer is at your Prep signal, which is 4 minutes unless altered by the SIs. (And basically never is)

The sequence goes like this

5 minutes - warning signal - Class flag up and a sound
4 minutes - Preparatory signal - Prep flag up (either Papa, India, Zulu or black flag - with each having different rules relating to OCS) and a sound
1 minute - Preparatory flag removed and a sound
start - class flag removed and a sound.

Some events use Foxtrot to mean "warning signal in x minutes" and usually combine that with the first reading of a course.

So....in this instance, you are only racing and subject to the RRS from 4 mins before your start?

 

[flaming]

So....in this instance, you are only racing and subject to the RRS from 4 mins before your start?

Technically you are racing from your prep signal - so no engines sculling etc. You are however subject to part 2 (anti collision basically) of the RRS outside of then.

The rules of Part 2 apply between boats that are sailing in or near
the racing area and intend to race, are racing, or have been racing.
However, a boat not racing shall not be penalized for breaking one
of these rules, except rule 24.1.

So in other words RRS apply between 2 boats milling about waiting to start, but you can't be penalized for breaking a rule until after your prep signal. Except for 24.1 which says that a boat subject to the RRS but not currently racing shall not interfere with one that is racing. So in other words you couldn't cross the line and finish but then sail back to interfere with boats that were still racing to the finish.

 

[Giblets]

Flaming, out of interest what are the rules regarding two boats coming together (and requiring fending off) owing to tidal influence if both are becalmed?

 

[flaming]

Flaming, out of interest what are the rules regarding two boats coming together (and requiring fending off) owing to tidal influence if both are becalmed?

As far as I'm aware there are no special rules relating to becalmed boats.

So I believe (and I'm willing to be corrected here) that the last wind direction would establish which boat had ROW, so if you were the give way boat before the wind died, then you drift together it's hard luck.

A demand to do spins, or a protest, in a genuine no wind gentle coming togther may not pass the Paul Elvstrom test though.

"You haven't won the race, if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors."

 

[pteron]

We started at 8am finished at 19:52, 50th overall in the ISC rating system.

Managed to hit all of the tidal gates, the tide contributed more to our progress than the wind!

 

[st599]

It's understandable if you are an occasional racer. Engine should be off 10 minutes before start. Edit - oops, correction, 5 mins (used to be 10 mins, old system). Strictly speaking, when the warning flag goes up.

Nope

Racing rules apply from the Preparatory Flag.

so in the 541 system it's 4 mins before. But it's 5 for the RTIR.

 

[Hypocacculus]

Nope

Racing rules apply from the Preparatory Flag.

so in the 541 system it's 4 mins before. But it's 5 for the RTIR.

I stand corrected. However, in reality, you see the warning flag then faff about for a few seconds it takes to sort yourself out and switch your engine off!

 

[Keen_Ed]

As far as I'm aware there are no special rules relating to becalmed boats.

So I believe (and I'm willing to be corrected here) that the last wind direction would establish which boat had ROW, so if you were the give way boat before the wind died, then you drift together it's hard luck. .

Been thinking about this one. Definition of keep clear is: Keep Clear A boat keeps clear of a right-of-way boat (a) if the right-of-way boat can sail her course with no need to take avoiding action and, (b) when the boats are overlapped, if the right-of-way boat can also change course in both directions without immediately making contact.

I would think that there's a reasonable argument to be had over the difference between sailing your course, and drifting without steerage way. If the RoW boat has no steerage and can't sail her course, I can't really see how she has right of way and demand that keep clear boats keep clear.

AFAIAA, there is no ISAF/RYA/US Sailing or other appeal about this.