Round Britain day 43

[MoodySabre]

Steel into plastic doesn't seem like a good idea. Can you take the sail fixing apart and get a nut in there?

ps - fabulous weather for my trip to Q'boro and the Monty.

 

[Sandy]

No, I only have 2 reefs as I never planned to be out in over a force 7. Perhaps I was wrong, but Concerto is still handling perfectly well despite this.

But you are at about 59° N, things are a bit different at that latitude.

 

[Blueboatman]

Well this is PBO ‘ get you home’ stuff..

I would contemplate feeding a line through the hollow hinge pin where the pulled out bolt meets the Rutgerson type mast car. ..

Then I would undo one of the socket screws clamping the plastic parts to the sail and replace it with a longer bolt or bit of threaded bar and some nuts and washers , using a nut and a penny washer on each end and more nuts, to create something around which each end of the new, added line may be tied securely .
And now , the loose pin cannot jump out of the stripped threaded hole , yet the system retains its articulation in two planes without creating any new loading on any of it .
Just a thought .

I would also be asking for replacement components to be sent too but I think you have that in hand ?

 

[srm]

I would also be asking for replacement components to be sent too

I would be asking for well engineered replacements of marine quality. It looks as if Selden's none sailing accountant decided that el cheapo plastic was better for their profit margin. Two failures while sailing in UK waters shows that the design and construction is not fit for purpose.

 

[Concerto]

But you are at about 59° N, things are a bit different at that latitude.

Yes, but it does not start with a 6 now.

 

[Concerto]

Well this is PBO ‘ get you home’ stuff..

I would contemplate feeding a line through the hollow hinge pin where the pulled out bolt meets the Rutgerson type mast car. ..

Then I would undo one of the socket screws clamping the plastic parts to the sail and replace it with a longer bolt or bit of threaded bar and some nuts and washers , using a nut and a penny washer on each end and more nuts, to create something around which each end of the new, added line may be tied securely .
And now , the loose pin cannot jump out of the stripped threaded hole , yet the system retains its articulation in two planes without creating any new loading on any of it .
Just a thought .

I would also be asking for replacement components to be sent too but I think you have that in hand ?

The sailmaker did say there are some precision batten cars made completely in aluminium, but at £300 per car - ouch.

Thinking about this this evening I realise there is a screw into the plastic to allow the sail to flake down, rather than the battens standing upright. Maybe they should never be screwed in tight or flaking the sail could cause the thread to break over time. Again a design fault. If movement is required then it should be provide in a way that the bolt cannot be screwed in tight. I have check my paperwork and can see no warning the bolt should not be fully fitted. Just a further comment, the mainsail has not been off the mast for 4 or 5 years.

 

[Blueboatman]

Ugh
Another ‘idea’ that popped into my head, rightly or wrongly in the night .
Perhaps two extra, slim bolts drilled laterally from one side through the plastic to the other just above and below the threads of the bolt which is falling out? The idea is that they touch the big bolt threads and help lock it all in place . And help clamp the two sides of plastic together along the centre..it might help stop the plastic deforming away from the important threads ..
hmmm

 

[ProDave]

Can you re tap the plastic hole and put a helicoil thread insert in?

 

[Blueboatman]

Can you re tap the plastic hole and put a helicoil thread insert in?

Or wrap a length of electrical copper wire around the bolt thread as a ‘ spacer’??

 

[Concerto]

Ugh
Another ‘idea’ that popped into my head, rightly or wrongly in the night .
Perhaps two extra, slim bolts drilled laterally from one side through the plastic to the other just above and below the threads of the bolt which is falling out? The idea is that they touch the big bolt threads and help lock it all in place . And help clamp the two sides of plastic together along the centre..it might help stop the plastic deforming away from the important threads ..
hmmm

I also did further thinking after posting last night. It should have been designed with a post with a groove for a screw from the plate to hold it in place so the post can turn to allow the batten to turn when flaking the mainsail.

Can you re tap the plastic hole and put a helicoil thread insert in?

I had thought about that, but where I am would be difficult to get done.

Or wrap a length of electrical copper wire around the bolt thread as a ‘ spacer’??

That I had not thought about. I might even give that a try if I have any 1.0mm household cable onboard.

 

[srm]

I had thought about that, but where I am would be difficult to get done.

There were two engineering workshops in Stromness, very close to each other. The main one is Hamnavoe Engineering, they are in a small industrial area off the Cairston Road behind Argo's bakery building. Being islanders they are very good at improvising. Cairston road is the right turn at the roundabout at the north end of the harbour, go past the primary school then take the left turn after the bakery. Walking (or cycling ) distance from the marina.

 

[wilkinsonsails]

Can you not fit a nylon nut inside the batten box ? The mastside of the tensioner .

 

[Concerto]

Can you not fit a nylon nut inside the batten box ? The mastside of the tensioner .

Hello Cindy
I had a look and there is not sufficient room. On Monday I will see if the engineering shop can fit 2 helicoils as srm has suggested.

 

[wilkinsonsails]

Just an observation and it’s quite common now Your other slides have shock cord attachment,this will mean that there is quite a lot of strain on the batten box thread Maybe webbing slide attachment may share the load better.?

 

[Concerto]

Concerto, the North may have challenges but after many years away I agreed to skipper a boat for Blind Week. I am unable to attach a photo of Yarmouth harbour yesterday, (file too large) stern to berthing on a long pontoon, £45 a night for 36'. Give me the peace of Scotland anytime.

You can get photos reduced online for free, just search Google. All my photos have to be reduced to a maximum of 1000 pixels on the longest side and I use a paid for photo editting package with a huge number of features I have no need for or inclination to learn about.

 

[wilkinsonsails]

The older Style Rutgerson and Bainbridge boxes have a captive nut held in the plastic inside ,I’ve never had these strip out yet ,but maybe no one else has put them to the same sort of test ??

 

[Concerto]

Just an observation and it’s quite common now Your other slides have shock cord attachment,this will mean that there is quite a lot of strain on the batten box thread Maybe webbing slide attachment may share the load better.?

I will await a reply from the sailmaker about his enquiries. If the helicoils do not work, then I will replace the all batten cars and consider changing the sliders to webbing. You never know you may be seeing me this winter for some minor repairs.

The older Style Rutgerson and Bainbridge boxes have a captive nut held in the plastic inside ,I’ve never had these strip out yet ,but maybe no one else has put them to the same sort of test ??

These are branded Selden, so maybe not to quite as good. Checking the original quote it did say Rutgerson, but they fitted Selden, so maybe they will have to change them all to what was quoted for as a gesture of goodwill.

 

[Arcady]

Can you re tap the plastic hole and put a helicoil thread insert in?

Exactly so. I appreciate you may not have access to those at the moment, but I think that would make a repair that is better than new. Some years ago I had two Marelon valves fail because the components had been over tightened. After using Helicoil inserts they were still fine ten years later.

 

[ProDave]

You can get photos reduced online for free, just search Google. All my photos have to be reduced to a maximum of 1000 pixels on the longest side and I use a paid for photo editting package with a huge number of features I have no need for or inclination to learn about.

I use the free program Photoscape for reducing photograph sizes.

 

[srm]

Just out of curiosity, what is the reason for attaching the mainsail to its sliders with elastic?
It seems counter-intuitive if you want a straight luff, but then going back to my first cruising boat in the early 70's I have always had shackles, lashings or sewn webbing attachments, though on a friend's boat before that we had lashings to mast hoops.