Round Britain and Ireland for a novice: Realistic?

bitbaltic said:
I like that, a Celtic circumnavigation ;)
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You'll upset the Welsh and Cornish if you don't use a few canals down through England. :-)


Personally I feel up the West Coast and a tour of selected Scottish Islands would be a fine achievement in anyone's first year of yachting.
 
jimi said:
Theres a couple of legs on the trip you'd want to be sure of the weather in a small boat, one is the trip round Lands End to either Padstow, Milford Haven or Ireland.
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And the W coast of Ireland. It's a tad rough out there at the moment. Actually, being a bit pedantic: Very Rough/High.

If the OP is still considering a 21.7, I'd add weight to the argument against it. I've seen one knocked down whilst racing. It was only a 6 and it was flat water. If the OP avoids going out when there's a 6 in the forecast, he could end up being resident long enough to claim an Irish passport.
 
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DJE said:
I seem to remember hearing about an alternative route via west coast of Ireland, north of Scotland then back via Caledonian Canal and Irish Sea to miss out the boring bit.
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:).
Actually, joking aside this could be a good alternative route for many. Including the OP depending on starting point - and with a trailer sailer starting point can be flexible. Still would personally prefer something bigger than a Frist 21 for that route, though the smaller Minis do transatlantic often enough
 
I went through the Cally clockwise in a 8m BK Mirage overwintering (boat, not me) in Hartlepool. Stan Lester used the same model boat.
I did the trip over 2014/15 and ticked off going foreign by visiting France.
Almost all solo sailing including night sails, a good a/helm and clothing are needed.
I posted here for crew and didn't get even tentative inquiries. So the advice to assume crew shortages is a good idea. Great experience. I am able to leave my supply teaching at summer half term and I'm free until September.
I'm already planning to go round the top from Fleetwood in 2016, possibly retracing the canal and back down the West coast. Anyone fancy a leg?
http://britainbyrivendell.weebly.com/
 
bitbaltic said:
Agree. If I (and the missus) ever get the time to do it via the Irish Sea and Cally, we would consider it a real achievement.

Would love to do the Irish west coast too but that brings a whole other dimension to the challenge.
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I suggested once before on here a Celtic figure of 8 rally:

Up the Irish sea, around Cape Wrath, through the Cale canal and down the west coast of Ireland. People could join at various different ports on the way.
 
Sybarite said:
Those doing record attempts go anti-clockwise because there is a better chance of catching the prevailing winds.
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Do they? I wasn't sure which way they would go.

It looks like the Round Britain and Ireland Race is normally Clockwise round, but switched to Anti-clockwise last time at short notice, due to the extensive gales in the channel. Because of these gales, and some amazing sailing, Oman Sail did set a new record.
Indeed at 3 days and 3 hours for the proper outside everything route - don't know why the OP is being such a wimp doing in 3 months
 
Thanks to everyone for all your advice and encouragement. I hadn’t expected such a great response!

It seems as though everyone agrees that a First 21.7 isn’t quite up to the job, including ballyabroad who should know what he’s talking about. I’m used to doing 30 miles a day in a kayak with 6 inches of freeboard and then sleeping on a beach so the ‘camping in a yacht’ plan seemed pretty appealing (also, 21 foot is enormous by my standards). But I do need to make decent progress and keep my crew happy, and I should have considered the benefits of an inboard engine.

Thanks for all the other suggestions: The Sadler 26 / Westerly Centaur / Tough as old boots bilge keeler is the obvious solution but I’m afraid I’m after something a bit more tippy. BBG’s Mini Transat suggestion is right up my street, and was actually the first boat I thought of, but they are a bit too deep and I figured too much of a handful for my limited experience. The Hanse 301 suggestion is a humdinger (thanks bitbaltic): fast, seaworthy and able to take to ground: Surely the perfect boat, but sadly I think it would be a bit too luxurious for me (remember: the plan is ‘camping in a yacht’).

I’m leaning towards something like a Beneteau first 25.7 or a Jeanneau Sun 2500 (thanks Doug748): All the benefits of a 21.7 with a bit more length, shallow draught, an inboard and a proper bog.

Perhaps I should tell you a bit more about my motivations: Basically, I love sailing small boats, and I love a challenge (climbing big mountains, jumping off of stuff, kayaking around things). Bragging rights also matter, so the Caledonian canal is hopefully a last resort (dunedin has the right idea, I also want to kayak it one day and I don’t want to spoil that adventure). I could be persuaded to cut out the west coast of Ireland …. But I have family (and potential crew) in Limerick and I thought it would make a good staging point.

I really appreciate all your advice, and I’m hoping I can draw on a bit more of that wisdom with a few more specific questions:

1. Can anyone recommend a good school for doing my day skipper? I don’t want to learn how to snag the mooring closest to the champagne bars at Cowes Week, I need a proper school!!
2. How the bloody hell do you buy a boat?
3. I’m going to need a permanent mooring. How does one go about getting one of those? (FYI, my family are based in Lee on Solent so I’m thinking Hamble or Portsmouth Harbour, and a swinging mooring)

Finally, thanks to Daydream Believer for the budget suggestion, very helpful. And Dylan Winter’s youtube channel is fantastic! It’s going to take me a while to digest all those videos.
 
It took me 90 days to 'do' Ireland in 2014. I called into 50 harbors and missed so many others that I am going round again in 2016, but slower this time, to really enjoy it.
2 or 3 months for the 'grand circuit' is just not enough time.
Macwester 27. Slow? not so you would notice. I met one guy in a very fast tri over and over again, and the freedom to drop into any bay or river entrance to avoid the bad weather is such a safety factor that I wouldn't dream of trying it with a fin keel.
A word of warning re crew, many promised to join me but few turned up.
Capt. RoN
 
ronmarson said:
It took me 90 days to 'do' Ireland in 2014. I called into 50 harbors and missed so many others that I am going round again in 2016, but slower this time, to really enjoy it.
2 or 3 months for the 'grand circuit' is just not enough time.
Macwester 27. Slow? not so you would notice. I met one guy in a very fast tri over and over again, and the freedom to drop into any bay or river entrance to avoid the bad weather is such a safety factor that I wouldn't dream of trying it with a fin keel.
A word of warning re crew, many promised to join me but few turned up.
Capt. RoN
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listen to this mam.... he speaks good sense

D
 
Yes I suspect RonMarson is mostly right. You could be different - all the helpers might turn up. But I wouldnt count on it.

MMGW has ensured as predicted that UK weather has turned windier and wetter. I've been sailing many years and the last 5 have on average been the worst weather wise. That being the case, a First of that length simply isnt the right boat. Go for something less sporty, less dinghy and that will take to the ground. You dont want to have a boat that will not behave under autohelm since you will end up single handing at least some of the time, so you dont want a big dinghy like the First you mention. Would it do the trip? Yes it would but it would be miserable for the skipper big time.

There are advantages being able to take to the ground. Less so than many people suggest but there nevertheless.

You need more than pure sailing skills which you certainly will have from your dinghy days. You need nav skills, boat repair skills, tide knowledge, weather understanding. As with your choice of boat, you can succeed without any of these skills but again it will be a much less pleasant and less safe escapade if indeed you make it.
 
birdseye said:
Go for something less sporty, less dinghy and that will take to the ground.
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Why " take to the ground"
That suggests a bilge keeler & that is totally unnecessary
A bilge keeler certainly will not provide the " sporty" part of the OP's post
A bilge keeler might only be a knot or so slower but that is a lot when tidal gates & the like etc have to be met
 
ronmarson said:
the freedom to drop into any bay or river entrance to avoid the bad weather is such a safety factor that I wouldn't dream of trying it with a fin keel.
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Come on chaps. The OP came here asking about something somewhere between cruising and Hafren round Britain and the thread has, as usual, been making more leeway than a British bilge keeler going to windward until it is inevitably set down on the rocks of the 1970s. Now he is being told that his intention to take even a fin keeled boat, let alone a sporty one, to the west of Ireland is a risk beyond even the imagination of one clearly experienced skipper.

Let's try and help the chap rather than simply say how we'd all do it. Maybe then he'll be back?

If it must be a bilge keeler then I guess he needs to up his budget and get an RM!??
 
bitbaltic said:
Let's try and help the chap rather than simply say how we'd all do it. Maybe then he'll be back?
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Absolutely. The OP said "I fancy a quick blast round Britain in a small boat" and the advice is now to do it in nothing less than a 30 footer and to take three months at least over it. If he wants to do a quick blast round Britain in a small boat why the hell shouldn't he?
 
dylanwinter said:
20 foot tides

D
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Well I never had any problem with "20 ft tides" when I sailed round UK & I do not see that as being a relevant reason to have to sail round UK very slowly all the time
Remember the OP has a short time to do it & I am certain he will not want to spend days up some filthy muddy creak in a knackered old bilge keeler , far from the maddening crowd.
I get the impression that he wants the experience of doing the trip in a boat with a bit of "go" ,which will get him from place to place quickly
 
JumbleDuck said:
Absolutely. The OP said "I fancy a quick blast round Britain in a small boat" and the advice is now to do it in nothing less than a 30 footer and to take three months at least over it. If he wants to do a quick blast round Britain in a small boat why the hell shouldn't he?
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So what is wrong with some contributors outlining their personal opinion & experiences. Surely he posted the thread to get exactly that
 
Thanks to everyone for all your advice and encouragement. I hadn’t expected such a great response!

It seems as though everyone agrees that a First 21.7 isn’t quite up to the job, including ballyabroad who should know what he’s talking about. I’m used to doing 30 miles a day in a kayak with 6 inches of freeboard and then sleeping on a beach so the ‘camping in a yacht’ plan seemed pretty appealing (also, 21 foot is enormous by my standards). But I do need to make decent progress and keep my crew happy, and I should have considered the benefits of an inboard engine. Thanks for all the other suggestions: The Sadler 26 / Westerly Centaur / Tough as old boots bilge keeler is the obvious solution but I’m afraid I’m after something a bit more tippy. BBG’s Mini Transat suggestion is right up my street, and was actually the first boat I thought of, but they are a bit too deep and I figured too much of a handful for my limited experience. The Hanse 301 suggestion is a humdinger (thanks bitbaltic): fast, seaworthy and able to take to ground: Surely the perfect boat, but sadly I think it would be a bit too luxurious for me (remember: the plan is ‘camping in a yacht’).

I’m leaning towards something like a Beneteau first 25.7 or a Jeanneau Sun 2500 (thanks Doug748): All the benefits of a 21.7 with a bit more length, shallow draught, an inboard and a proper bog.
Perhaps I should tell you a bit more about my motivations: Basically, I love sailing small boats, and I love a challenge (climbing big mountains, jumping off of stuff, kayaking around things). Bragging rights also matter, so the Caledonian canal is hopefully a last resort (dunedin has the right idea, I also want to kayak it one day and I don’t want to spoil that adventure). I could be persuaded to cut out the west coast of Ireland …. But I have family (and potential crew) in Limerick and I thought it would make a good staging point.

I really appreciate all your advice, and I’m hoping I can draw on a bit more of that wisdom with a few more specific questions:

1. Can anyone recommend a good school for doing my day skipper? I don’t want to learn how to snag the mooring closest to the champagne bars at Cowes Week, I need a proper school!!
2. How on earth do you buy a boat?
3. I’m going to need a permanent mooring. How does one go about getting one of those? (FYI, my family are based in Lee on Solent so I’m thinking Hamble or Portsmouth Harbour, and a swinging mooring)

Finally, thanks to Daydream Believer for the budget suggestion, very helpful. And Dylan Winter’s youtube channel is fantastic! It’s going to take me a while to digest all those videos.
 
Knightrider said:
I'm planning to buy a boat of up to 25 feet and a bit lively. I intend to sail two-up over 2-3 months around Britain and Ireland (the long way), treating the whole thing as a series of day sails ... waiting out the bad weather. I grew up sailing dinghies, did my comp crew 10 years ago, moved to London, stopped sailing, and now I want to get going again. I have a motley crew of mountain climbers and sea kayakers who each want do one week stints, but they have a combined total of 2 hours sailing experience (on a Hobie Cat with me as the instructor!!)

I could really use your help with some questions: where do I begin? Is my plan feasible? How to get qualified and build up experience? What boats do you recommend (creature comforts not necessary - I'm thinking Beneteau First 21.7)? And most importantly: which way round???

All advice greatly appreciated :-)

P.s. I'm thirty years old, I have a boat budget of £15k-£30k and I've got three months off work from July to September 2016. I'm a very experienced sea kayaker, fit and healthy, have a lot of enthusiasm and a healthy respect for the sea!
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You will easily do it in that time in small lively yacht. I did it in 6 weeks in larger, slower yacht with crew changes every week. I left the Clyde, round the top of Scotland, Orkney and took in Belgium, Channel Isles, Scilly Isles and back up to the Clyde. We sailed a lot, no GPS or stuff.

Personally, would not worry about the wind or weather too much, just go, sail and deal with it, I had to deal with a F9 running up from Scilly to the Irish Sea. A well found boat, a crew that can sail, that are young and tough, will handle this easy. While you may think that you want to berth over night, every night, don't plan for that. I have delivered some stripped out cruiser races that were not that comfortable but you get used to it and can make any hull cosy as long as it has some where to sleep.

There is so much more fretting these days about stuff, buy your boat and go; be prepared to sail and live aboard overnight for 2 to 3 nights in a row at sea, which is a lot of miles, majority of sails will be less.

The Beneteau 21.7 will be fine, 4 up or single handed, overnight sailing, 3 days, 2 nights at sea, about 150 nm sort of ballpark. Learn how to use a tidal atlas and use the tide gates don't fight it. The worst part for me is the North Sea, its always a short chop and you have to work the boat hard to not slam. It was easier for me to sail to Belgium and back over than carry on banging away i.e. we took the opportunity that wind and tide presented, did not fight it.

Hope this helps.
 
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