Round Britain and Ireland for a novice: Realistic?

Bobc said:
Absolutely.
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Sadler 26 is a fab boat, but OP mentioned speed. And certainly if it were me I'd be more going down the route suggested by bbg. An old Mini would put a smile on anyone's face! Fully agree that a First 21.7 is really the wrong boat though.
 
Went round myself last year in my tough-as-old-boots (and unsinkable) Sadler 26 - voyage took 4 months and two days and that was still far too short, as others have mentioned in above posts. Boat behaved brilliantly and easily took in her stride one or two dustings on the way (rounding the Lizard being one - Cape Wrath being another). Would go for bilge keel as already suggested - this will open up far more bolt holes on passage should the weather kick up unexpectedly. The slightly heavier displacement of a Sadler/Centaur/Macwester over the much lighter Beneteau for such a trip, will obviously be an added bonus when you need it most. Having said that, I met a chap in a First 27.5 I think it was on my way round, who had almost completed a circumnavigation of the UK and he said everything was fine with his particular choice of boat. Best of luck in taking this challenge on (in whatever boat you finally decide) - you certainly won't regret the experience!
 
I have done most of this trip over the years - not the North Sea portion as I reckon that is a bit boring. I think the boat you have chosen would be quite 'challenging'.

With your budget you could get quite a reasonable deep sea boat - say a Nicholson 32, Rival 32. A bit elderly, but tough as old boots. As they are out of fashion they are nearly as cheap as chips. No problem on doing the longer passages or if you are caught out in bad weather. Also a lot more comfortable when in port.
 
ancient mariner said:
Went round myself last year in my tough-as-old-boots (and unsinkable) Sadler 26 - voyage took 4 months and two days and that was still far too short, as others have mentioned in above posts. Boat behaved brilliantly and easily took in her stride one or two dustings on the way (rounding the Lizard being one - Cape Wrath being another). Would go for bilge keel as already suggested - this will open up far more bolt holes on passage should the weather kick up unexpectedly. The slightly heavier displacement of a Sadler/Centaur/Macwester over the much lighter Beneteau for such a trip, will obviously be an added bonus when you need it most. Having said that, I met a chap in a First 27.5 I think it was on my way round, who had almost completed a circumnavigation of the UK and he said everything was fine with his particular choice of boat. Best of luck in taking this challenge on (in whatever boat you finally decide) - you certainly won't regret the experience!
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there is an element of hare and tortoise. You might have a light yacht that goes fast but will knacker you - or you can have a heavier yacht that will go slower but you will be able to crack on more hours.

I reckon that the ideal for passage making is three blokes

three blokes in 21 foot is tough - really tough

three blokes on 26 foot is peasy

here is a film about 500 miles in a clunky old easy to buy... easy to sell....26 footer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djp-D5s-sik
 
Minchsailor said:
I have done most of this trip over the years - not the North Sea portion as I reckon that is a bit boring. I think the boat you have chosen would be quite 'challenging'.

With your budget you could get quite a reasonable deep sea boat - say a Nicholson 32, Rival 32. A bit elderly, but tough as old boots. As they are out of fashion they are nearly as cheap as chips. No problem on doing the longer passages or if you are caught out in bad weather. Also a lot more comfortable when in port.
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A lot of those old boats, particularly thoser for sail, will have a lot of clapped out old gear on them, which will want sorting before you go around the North of Scotland.
That takes time and/or money.
I feel that an older used boat may need a season of shakedown time before setting off on something like this with a bit of a deadline.
Unless you find a really well sorted example.
 
lw395 said:
A lot of those old boats, particularly thoser for sail, will have a lot of clapped out old gear on them, which will want sorting before you go around the North of Scotland.
That takes time and/or money.
I feel that an older used boat may need a season of shakedown time before setting off on something like this with a bit of a deadline.
Unless you find a really well sorted example.
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Just bought a centaur for 5.5K

new engine, well sorted electrics, she is ready to go around the UK

10K would get you one where all you had to do is to stop at the supermarket on the way to the boat to buy beer and pot noodles.

D
 
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Good luck with the trip. Should be a great experience. Generally I would caution against being too ambitious in small boats, but if an experienced sea kayaker I guess you will know to respect the sea by now !

3 months is certainly tight for the full journey round the UK and Ireland - but perhaps achievable if that is your goal. You don't say where you are starting from, but choosing so the right place could help if decided to cut short (being biased I would say Falmouth, Ireland to Orkney are likely to be the best bits - the rest is optional!)

Definitely would recommend a boat with a reliable diesel inboard. We like to sail wherever possible, and rarely motor - but when you need to make progress against waves an outboard can be a pain.

If an ex dinghy sailor and enjoy sailing, personally I would not go the old bilge keel route some suggest. Most of the interesting bits are relatively deep water (though preferably would not go above 2m) and a more modern sailing boat will be more rewarding if occasionally also challenging. The Hanse 301 is an interesting suggestion and worth exploring (as is the similar sized Bavaria if not killed by a furly mainsail) - but certainly a 27-30 footer with moderate fin keel and good designer might be better than a F21.7 (perhaps a bigger First?)

Have fun and keep us posted
 
I sailed a Sadler 29 for 15 years and raced against a couple of Beneteau 211s. In a force 3 or less they left me for dead. In a force 4 or more I left them for dead. The Sadler will cope with much more wind and bigger seas than the 211 without getting the crew soaking wet. Given a typical British summer I wouldn't expect the Beneteau to be any faster over the whole trip.
 
Being a hanse owner I would say that the 301 would be excellent if you can get one. very quick & a good sea boat. The problem of a keel is nowhere near what people say & that extra knot the boat will do makes a big difference to enjoyment

The suggestion of a sadler 26/29 is also good. What you need is a boat that can be left to the autopilot & sailed single handed. Helming for long hours is boring. A sadler will look after you & you can go below & make a meal etc. You have to bear in mind that inexperienced crew will be tiring for you plus they may get seasick & they are easier to look after in a sadler
A sadler gives a bit more protection than some lighter designs as well I expect

For practice I suggest you leave the GPS at home & do a few night & day crossings of the channel. that will let you learn how best to deal with the variety of conditions you will encounter & hone the navigation

I also would suggest going via the Irish sea - shorter plus less weather affected unlike the exposed atlantic coast which may mean delays in departures etc due to windier weather & less places easy to get into ( although I have not done it so it is not necessarily an informed opinion)

Crew changes are easier up the irish seas ie places like dunlaghaire & dublin ( sorry about spelling)can be accessed by ferry from UK

To do it in the time i suggest going via the cally canal first time ( you will want to do it again i can assure you!!!)

i have done it SH twice in a Hanse 311 & it takes 8 weeks minimum with 6 trips over 100 miles & a sail a day rest a day programme. But I also did the Channel islands at the same time to make up for not going round the top or round ireland
 
Twister_Ken said:
I think most of you must have skipped the OP's first sentence...

"I'm planning to buy a boat of up to 25 feet and a bit lively. "

Suggesting he does it a brick-built sh*thouse isn't very helpful.
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just pointing out other ways of cracking the same nut

as he says.... he is not that experienced.... and may not be aware how much of a challenge sailing a lively boat shorthanded for 2,500 miles in three months with a scratch crew might be

of course if he is doing the trip just for bragging rights then go the whole hog and buy an 18 footer and not cut through the Cally
 
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Twister_Ken said:
I think most of you must have skipped the OP's first sentence...

"I'm planning to buy a boat of up to 25 feet and a bit lively. "

Suggesting he does it a brick-built sh*thouse isn't very helpful.
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No but he does state a reasonable budget & whilst i agree that centaurs & the like are certainly unlikely to attract the Op ( & less face it they are a bit carpy ) I would have thought that a well sorted sadler 26/29 would do Ok --or even much better the fairly quick Hanse 301 ( or a smaller but older 29 if available)which on such a trip would beat the benny 21 & sadler easily & be great to sail.
I met lots of single handers in circa 22 ft boats, but they had to do lots more stops as they could not cover as long legs as me & they were very tide & weather dependent. A bigger boat helps here

If the budget includes spending money then it cost me a total of £ 3800-00 the first time & £ 3700-00 the second,for fuel food etc & using marinas all the way ( & the canal) This did not include another £ 1000-00 on pilots & charts & books on the subject.

I have a friend who has just gone round the top & only used a navigation app on his & his sons phones so much of that could be saved ( until something goes wrong). It took him 16 weeks in a leisure 27 & he encountered quite a bit of bad weather- which is another reason to discount the 21.1
 
Twister_Ken said:
I think most of you must have skipped the OP's first sentence...

"I'm planning to buy a boat of up to 25 feet and a bit lively. "

Suggesting he does it a brick-built sh*thouse isn't very helpful.
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Doesn't that depend on what you take "lively" to mean? Maybe a non-cruiser just means "fast". Whereas someone used to living on yachts interprets it as meaning "all over the place"?

Mike.
 
Daydream believer said:
I also would suggest going via the Irish sea - shorter plus less weather affected unlike the exposed atlantic coast which may mean delays in departures etc due to windier weather & less places easy to get into ( although I have not done it so it is not necessarily an informed opinion)

To do it in the time i suggest going via the cally canal first time ( you will want to do it again i can assure you!!!)
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So to go round the UK and Ireland sounds like a real adventure. To cut through the Irish Sea and the Caledonian Canal would completely change the nature of this to a fairly lengthy but relatively routine trip.

A bit like going to the Lake District and just doing the lowland walks round the various lakes/meres without actually walking up any of the hills. Very nice if you like that sort of thing but not the real deal.
 
dunedin said:
So to go round the UK and Ireland sounds like a real adventure. To cut through the Irish Sea and the Caledonian Canal would completely change the nature of this to a fairly lengthy but relatively routine trip.

A bit like going to the Lake District and just doing the lowland walks round the various lakes/meres without actually walking up any of the hills. Very nice if you like that sort of thing but not the real deal.
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You might suggest that, but I think there are many who would regard that as a real challenge & certainly enough to give a sense of achievement.
 
Daydream believer said:
You might suggest that, but I think there are many who would regard that as a real challenge & certainly enough to give a sense of achievement.
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Agree. If I (and the missus) ever get the time to do it via the Irish Sea and Cally, we would consider it a real achievement.

Would love to do the Irish west coast too but that brings a whole other dimension to the challenge.
 
Daydream believer said:
If the budget includes spending money then it cost me a total of £ 3800-00 the first time & £ 3700-00 the second,for fuel food etc & using marinas all the way ( & the canal) This did not include another £ 1000-00 on pilots & charts & books on the subject.
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I guess like many, I have a similar / passing interest and have been reading the thread with interest. In particular, I thought this was a very helpful and informative comment, thank you.
 
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