Rough cost of bowthruster installation on 24' boat?

[GrahamHR]

As ever John, the voice of reason! As you well know, there is a difference between battery operated bow/ stern thrusters and those that are battery operated. The problem with installing bow thrusters in small boats is that the power offered is actually not enough to really make a difference when you really need it. Fart in a thunderstorm springs to mind !

I use two boats from training, both have bow thrusters. One has an ineffectual one unless conditions are benign, the other has a serious bit of kit that works well - both are battery operated. I tend not to teach their use on courses, but so much depends on the boat, wind and tide: not to mention the helms ability!

Do I use them on "big boats"? Of course! Would I use on sub 30 ft? No! But then I never had such "luxury"!

Bow thrusters are useless on outdrive boats, just as much as brakes are useless on cars. A skilful car owner NEVER has o use the brakes on a car , as he/ she can anticipate all possible hazards and decelerate accordingly Just as the same sort of person can anticipate exactly what the wind I going to do when berthing such a boat.

I don't think so !!!!!!

 

[MapisM]

Seriously, can you really do that without a bowthruster? In brief, how? I'd love to know.

As you know, my boat has no b/t, so In the last decade and a half (always mooring stern to) I had to deal with some hairy conditions, occasionally.
My brief answer to your question is yes, it is possible, BUT you must take the risk of doing that with no safety net whatsoever.
In fact, with 20 knots of crosswind, and no b/t, you have no other choice than reversing VERY fast - much faster than in a normal docking maneuver.
And since in the conditions you described a mistake of just 1 foot can be enough to make a mess, I for one would not even try it.
Also because, incidentally, if you really have a 6m space and a 5.8m boat, you should probably reverse without even deploying your fenders (!), to avoid getting them tangled with those of the other two boats...
...Been there, done that, but at 0.1 knot speed and ZERO wind. Wouldn't even consider trying that with 10kts crosswind, let alone 20!

As an aside, not only I wonder if those who said that thrusters are useless ever tried to maneuver a boat with a good (which in fairness is not always the case) thruster, but also if they ever tried to maneuver a 24' sportboat with a single o/b. Actually, Nick didn't specify that she only has one screw, but if he's referring to the boat I have in mind, I know she does.
Now, I helmed plenty of lake boats in the 20'-26' range, all single screw (either o/b or sterndrive), and all of them, bar none, were MUCH more difficult to maneuver than any bigger twin shafts boat I tried.
There are possibly other good reasons for not fitting a b/t on small sportboats, but the equation small=easy doesn't make any sense.
Though of course when moving around 50 tons worth of boat it's possible to make more damages than with 2 tons, but that's another matter altogether.

 

[Solitaire]

Bow thrusters are useless on outdrive boats, just as much as brakes are useless on cars. A skilful car owner NEVER has o use the brakes on a car , as he/ she can anticipate all possible hazards and decelerate accordingly Just as the same sort of person can anticipate exactly what the wind I going to do when berthing such a boat.

I don't think so !!!!!!

Sorry, your point is?

 

[rafiki_]

Bow thrusters are useless on outdrive boats, just as much as brakes are useless on cars. A skilful car owner NEVER has o use the brakes on a car , as he/ she can anticipate all possible hazards and decelerate accordingly Just as the same sort of person can anticipate exactly what the wind I going to do when berthing such a boat.

I don't think so !!!!!!

Well, I hope I am never the car in front of you! I am not a heavy user of brakes, but am jolly glad they are there!

My previous boat, a 33 sports cruiser with twin outdrives had a bowthruster, and this came into its own when working in any sort of breeze. I would always want one. I used to have a single engine sports boat, and this was very difficult to reverse, and a bowthruster would have been very helpful.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Sorry, your point is?

Well, I hope I am never the car in front of you! I am not a heavy user of brakes, but am jolly glad they are there!

My previous boat, a 33 sports cruiser with twin outdrives had a bowthruster, and this came into its own when working in any sort of breeze. I would always want one. I used to have a single engine sports boat, and this was very difficult to reverse, and a bowthruster would have been very helpful.

Er, guys, I think GrahamHR was making a joke...

 

[Elessar]

As ever John, the voice of reason! As you well know, there is a difference between battery operated bow/ stern thrusters and those that are battery operated. The problem with installing bow thrusters in small boats is that the power offered is actually not enough to really make a difference when you really need it. Fart in a thunderstorm springs to mind !

I use two boats from training, both have bow thrusters. One has an ineffectual one unless conditions are benign, the other has a serious bit of kit that works well - both are battery operated. I tend not to teach their use on courses, but so much depends on the boat, wind and tide: not to mention the helms ability!

Do I use them on "big boats"? Of course! Would I use on sub 30 ft? No! But then I never had such "luxury"!

28ft merrie fisher 925 without a bow thruster? No thanks!

 

[Kawasaki]

As you know, my boat has no b/t, so In the last decade and a half (always mooring stern to) I had to deal with some hairy conditions, occasionally.
My brief answer to your question is yes, it is possible, BUT you must take the risk of doing that with no safety net whatsoever.
In fact, with 20 knots of crosswind, and no b/t, you have no other choice than reversing VERY fast - much faster than in a normal docking maneuver.
And since in the conditions you described a mistake of just 1 foot can be enough to make a mess, I for one would not even try it.
Also because, incidentally, if you really have a 6m space and a 5.8m boat, you should probably reverse without even deploying your fenders (!), to avoid getting them tangled with those of the other two boats...
...Been there, done that, but at 0.1 knot speed and ZERO wind. Wouldn't even consider trying that with 10kts crosswind, let alone 20!

As an aside, not only I wonder if those who said that thrusters are useless ever tried to maneuver a boat with a good (which in fairness is not always the case) thruster, but also if they ever tried to maneuver a 24' sportboat with a single o/b.
Now, I helmed plenty of lake boats in the 20'-26' range, all single screw (either o/b or sterndrive), and all of them, bar none, were MUCH more difficult
Though of course when moving around 50 tons worth of boat it's possible to make more damages than with 2 tons, but that's another matter altogether.

Mapis u r right single engined sports boats with outdrive are muthfookers to 'park' with the wind on the bow as you attempt to berth Stern too
The Peeps in Our Dock/ Marina have a Prevailng wind which buggers up 50%of the berth holders!
The 'Angle of Dangle' is so important to get the Ship in plus throttle control is the most important thing 'Steer then Gear Folks' and wheigh up/ second guess, where the breeze is coming fro and what it will do to your Bow
From My experience of Parkin boats and deliverin the buggers for the last 30 years, parkin is the hard bit. there is no Manuel or Definitive Way, it's just common sense and Practise. In Fact,when you think about it A Captain takes a big ship from lets say ---Liverpool and has 10 rope chuckers on the Dock to see Him off, and then a Tug moves Him away and then a Pilot jumps aboard to guide the Captain away, then They get shot of the Pilot and the Capitan --- Sets Sail for China or wherever an Plots a Course to China or wherever an goes for a Nap and gets a Phiillpino or similar to watch the Bridge!!!!

 

[Solitaire]

28ft merrie fisher 925 without a bow thruster? No thanks!

Single shaft? Now that is a different story ! I was really referencing stern drives/ outboards. But I have an interesting challenge ahead. A survey boat not far awY from us. Single screw, that used to be moored near you! Survey vessel. I have been asked to take her over

 

[jfm]

As you know, my boat has no b/t, so In the last decade and a half (always mooring stern to) I had to deal with some hairy conditions, occasionally.
My brief answer to your question is yes, it is possible, BUT you must take the risk of doing that with no safety net whatsoever.
In fact, with 20 knots of crosswind, and no b/t, you have no other choice than reversing VERY fast - much faster than in a normal docking maneuver.
And since in the conditions you described a mistake of just 1 foot can be enough to make a mess, I for one would not even try it.
Also because, incidentally, if you really have a 6m space and a 5.8m boat, you should probably reverse without even deploying your fenders (!), to avoid getting them tangled with those of the other two boats...
...Been there, done that, but at 0.1 knot speed and ZERO wind. Wouldn't even consider trying that with 10kts crosswind, let alone 20!

As an aside, not only I wonder if those who said that thrusters are useless ever tried to maneuver a boat with a good (which in fairness is not always the case) thruster, but also if they ever tried to maneuver a 24' sportboat with a single o/b. Actually, Nick didn't specify that she only has one screw, but if he's referring to the boat I have in mind, I know she does.
Now, I helmed plenty of lake boats in the 20'-26' range, all single screw (either o/b or sterndrive), and all of them, bar none, were MUCH more difficult to maneuver than any bigger twin shafts boat I tried.
There are possibly other good reasons for not fitting a b/t on small sportboats, but the equation small=easy doesn't make any sense.
Though of course when moving around 50 tons worth of boat it's possible to make more damages than with 2 tons, but that's another matter altogether.

Yup all agreed MapisM. If I was one of the already-parked boats I'd be ok about you reversing fast (especially because, as you've already explained, you know when not to and go to berth at the welcome quay or something!) but not 90% of the other skippers on this planet

Incidentally (FWIW), and going slightly OT, if I were one of the already-parked boats seeing a borderline case of someone parking next to me in a cross wind, especially with no b/thruster, I would (a) have roving fenders ready at the bow (b) be nice to the incoming boat crew and briefly comment on the tough job they've got and say we're happy to help, so as to "de-stress" them; and (c) fire up my b/thruster to widen the space for them to enter. If both sides do (c) this the space becomes say 3-4m wider and has a "funnel entry" shape. I am aware of the wake/current a 25hp hydraulic thruster makes but 50% of the time that would help the other guy fight the crosswind

On occasions good/nice skippers have done (c) for me in "away" berths, and I've thanked them effusively. See, there's another reason to have a bowthruster - it allows you to widen the space for an incoming boat that is having trouble, and protect your own boat from damage in process. "Trouble" means trouble for you as well as the parking boat

 

[aquapower]

I'm in the process of fitting a thruster to my Sealine 218 (23ft)
, I have a lot of experience with this kind if boat and know how bad can be manoeuvring in the wind, I'm also hoping it will make recovering onto trailer easier, the cost of parts was about £2000 for a 35kgf, I have paid a bit more for ignition protected as I have petrol engine.

 

[Solitaire]

Hmm, I wonder how many motorboat helms play chess?

 

[MapisM]

(c) fire up my b/thruster to widen the space for them to enter.

Wow, that's a nice thought indeed. I never had the privilege of such a treat!
Though to be fair, in the very few occasions when the space was so tight to require reversing without even deploying fenders (yup, aside from having my crew ready with roving fenders, but it seems to always happen when only swmbo is onboard, urgh!), it was because the whole dock was full of boats squeezed one against the other, so I'm afraid it would have been hard for anyone to move sideways the already parked boats...

Btw, yours is an even kinder effort considering that to run the b/t you must turn on also one engine - possibly already flushed with fresh water!
Or is the electric pump man enough, albeit maybe at reduced power?

 

[ricky_s]

28ft merrie fisher 925 without a bow thruster? No thanks!

Couldnt agree more!

 

[jfm]

- possibly already flushed with fresh water!

Haha, I'm not that diligent! The hardware only gets treated to FW flush outside of June-august because in the main season the engine stopped time is always less than a week

Or is the electric pump man enough, albeit maybe at reduced power?

No, it wouldn't even get close. Elec motor is 10hp. Add in some pump losses and maybe you have 7.5hp effective power at the b/thruster compared with 25hp when driven from the main engine PTOs

 

[GrahamHR]

Er, guys, I think GrahamHR was making a joke...

Well spotted; some miserable buggers about, isn't there !

 

[Sneds]

I'd like one, 28ft twin out drives, but nothing stops the wind blowing the pointy bit in the wrong direction!
Don't understand why anyone wouldn't want one if available.
Would you get in your car and turn off the ABS and traction control?

 

[antlouhay]

Sounds like 'Parking sensors on a Smart car' LOL

Better to learn how to handle the boat. Bowthrusters are next to useless...

Learnt how to handle a car without power steering.... but don't want a car without it,
one day thrusters on a boat will be the same

 

[rafiki_]

Well spotted; some miserable buggers about, isn't there !

Many apologies Graham, I didn't read your post properly, just scanned at the end of a long day. Sorry