Rope rode Vs Gypsy?

[goeasy123]

Do I need a special gypsy for the rope section of rode?

I want to add 30m of Anchorplait rope to my 50m of 8mm chain. I have a Lofrans Airon windlass with a standard gypsy. The shop that wants to sell me the rope showed me a gypsy that would take chain and rope with the rope gripping section towards the center of the spindle. My gypsy doesn't have this, but will it still pull rope?

 

[lustyd]

You can just pull in the rope by hand. It's only 8mm chain so there won't be a lot of weight to pull and then you can switch to the windlass. I do this with 10mm chain and it's manageable as long as you give the boat time to pull forwards slowly. Your current gypsy probably will grip but not consistently.
Unless you sail somewhere like the CIs or IoM a lot how often will you actually use the rope (or even most of the chain)? Personally I wouldn't bother with the new gypsy for the small number of uses.

 

[goeasy123]

Thanks lustyd. We want it for the Caribbean.... just in case we need a little extra scope for deep anchorages.

What do you think is the best size 12mm or 14mm for 8mm chain? I think I'm going for Liros Anchorplait.

 

[Neeves]

Do I need a special gypsy for the rope section of rode?

I want to add 30m of Anchorplait rope to my 50m of 8mm chain. I have a Lofrans Airon windlass with a standard gypsy. The shop that wants to sell me the rope showed me a gypsy that would take chain and rope with the rope gripping section towards the center of the spindle. My gypsy doesn't have this, but will it still pull rope?

Send an email to Lofrans defining exactly what equipment you have - including, critically, the specific gypsy on your windlass. You may need to take the gypsy off the windlass to define (the gypsy model number may be on the two facing plates of the gypsy - or they may be embossed engraved on the circumference). At the same time, same email - ask (if the gypsy will accept both rope and chain) what is the recommended rope for your gypsy.

Buying a new gypsy is extortionate.

It might be worth looking at the other option of buying an extra length of chain and joining with a Crosby 'C' link.

And if you are looking at option - and decide a new gypsy is sensible - why not look at a new 6mm/rope gypsy and new 6mm chain

I'd also research, unless you have done so already, how often you will need more than 50m of chain in the Caribbean - there are a significant number of members here who spend, have spent, live in the Carib. Its worth a new thread - but give full background detail.

Jonathan

 

[Refueler]

I have combination Gypsy on my Royal ..... have I ever used it for rope ? No.

I am a chain only rode believer - but do have rope for extra deep anchoring possibilities. I have used it a few times in real deep waters ...

As 'lustyd' says ... hand pull the rope - then gypsy for chain if needed.

I know I don't have large boat - but 4 tons and a reasonable anchor can still be a 'handful' to handle ... but as long as weather / seas are reasonable and I can have boat easing fwd as I retrieve rode ... I have never had need for the windlass. TBH .... I have considered removing it and 'uncluttering' my foredeck.

 

[Tranona]

You have a rope capstan on top of the windlass. Use this to bring in the rope then transfer the chain to the gypsy. Not sure whether your model has a rope/chain gypsy but as Neeves says ask Lofrans. 12mm is fine for the rope.

An alternative is to shackle the rope on if you need it rather than permanently splice. One of the problems with rope if it is not used frequently is that it sits as a muddy soggy mess at the bottom of the locker increasing the likelihood of corrosion around the splice and adjacent chain. This is what I did on my last boat when I realised I rarely used the extra scope. If you find you do use it a lot then you can always splice the extra on.

 

[Neeves]

If you check here, whichnyou might have done already

Gypsy

The implication is that your gypsy is the same as the 8mm gypsy for the Kobra/Cayman/Tigres and Royal windlass - all the gypsies are the same (and I thought accepted rope - but the spread sheet is not very informative). The spread sheet apparently ignores rope - unless I am not understanding how the spread sheet works

It does however define the gypsy model number you should find on your gypsy.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

Do I need a special gypsy for the rope section of rode?

I want to add 30m of Anchorplait rope to my 50m of 8mm chain. I have a Lofrans Airon windlass with a standard gypsy. The shop that wants to sell me the rope showed me a gypsy that would take chain and rope with the rope gripping section towards the center of the spindle. My gypsy doesn't have this, but will it still pull rope?

If you ask Lofrans whether your gypsy can accept rope - I'd be interested in the answer (for future reference). We are also here to learn.

Windlass manufacturers come up with different solutions to allow their gypsy to accept both rope and chain - just because your gypsy looks different to the one you were shown is not conclusive (it might be - we have not seen your gypsy) - get the gypsy number and Lofrans will tell you (that's why they have an email address and a technical department ).

Jonathan

 

[geem]

Thanks lustyd. We want it for the Caribbean.... just in case we need a little extra scope for deep anchorages.

What do you think is the best size 12mm or 14mm for 8mm chain? I think I'm going for Liros Anchorplait.

We are in the Caribbean and have cruised here extensively. We carry 60m of chain and 50m of 1" anchorplait. We hardly ever deploy the rope. Most of the time we anchor in 5m of water sometimes as much as 10m. We only deploy rope when in places like the BVIs where every nice anchorage is populated by a million extortionately and unreliable moorings. We simply anchor at the back of the mooring field and let out all the chain plus some rope. If I was setting up again for the Caribbean I probably wouldn't bother with the rope.

 

[lustyd]

If you ask Lofrans whether your gypsy can accept rope - I'd be interested in the answer (for future reference). We are also here to learn.

While I can see why you're asking, I'd also suggest it's irrelevant what Lofrans think the gypsy can do. The question is whether it actually can reliably do it and these are often different answers which may depend on the rope in question. While buying a new and expensive gypsy that "works with rope" might be more comforting it certainly doesn't offer a guarantee for your own rope. Whether it could be returned when shown to not work will depend on the retailer since the item is not defective and wasn't guaranteed to work with all rope types, sizes, makes. I've also found that just because the gypsy works with rope has no bearing on whether the rope will land acceptably into the locker. Some stiffer ropes will have sufficient back pressure to push the rope off of the gypsy, for instance.

 

[Neeves]

I think asking the windlass maker whether the gypsy accepts rope is a simply a sensible idea. It cost you nothing. If you have your wits about you then you simultaneously ask what size of rope is recommended for the specific gypsy and what type of rope - again its free. Not asking seems perverse. If you only asked about whether the gypsy accepted rope and you receive a positive answer - you can then ask the supplementary questions. Whether that rope retrieves into your locker might not have anything to do with the gypsy nor windlass (and thus has nothing to do with the windlass make) its all about your locker, how deep, how much space (and expecting a windlass maker to take responsibility for the locker - also seems perverse).

Anyone, again with a bit of wit (and an inhabitant of this learned forum) will now by now - chain and rope do not mix - the rope will always be damp and will accelerate corrosion of the chain. They will also be aware that rope retrieved by a gypsy may not be as effective as chain - rope does not self pack. They will also know that it is advisable to retreive the rope and store separately from the chain (your locker will determine how best to achieve this). You will also know, as Tranona mentioned on this thread, that the splice is a source of chain corrosion.

But if your gypsy is not designed to accept chain is a necessary piece of information and using the rope construction and size recommended by the windlass maker gives you a fighting chance.

The next question the OP needs to ask - if his gypsy accepts rope - is what type of splice (for which he can start another thread within which he can also ask about keeping rope and chain isolated, as much as possible, from each other.

The OP appears to have an Atlantic crossing as part of his ambitions. To me this suggests a reasonably sized yacht - and possibly he has one with a decent chain locker. Separating rope from chain will then be easier. If he is lucky the windlass maker may recommend multiplait and it will retrieve and pack better than 3 ply.

It depends on the answers the OP receives but if the option is 'no rope' then I might consider 6mm and a new gypsy (and put the old gypsy up for sail on the For Sale section, for someone down sizing from 10mm - it seems its a multi model Lofrans gypsy)) as punching into seas with 8mm will be less dry that a locker with 6mm. 6mm will take up less room, be easier to retrieve and allow a a bit more chain to be carried and still be lighter. Commonly most yachts have over specified chain, its heavier than needed, and downs size is sensible (if not cheap).

The OP asked the question here - so he knows the power of the forum and he will also know that many answers are simply not relevant to his specific needs - but having come here once - he can come back and ask supplementary questions. The answers are free - he needs to sort out what is relevant to him. I might recommend to the OP if he needs more detail - maybe tell us about his yacht and include some decent pictures - and we are all good to go.

I have found it strange, knowing that there are Lofrans owners here - no-one has piped up with whether their gypsy accepts rope (now if he had had a Maxwell I know I and others could have helped ).

Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

I have found it strange, knowing that there are Lofrans owners here - no-one has piped up with whether their gypsy accepts rope (now if he had had a Maxwell I know I and others could have helped ).

Jonathan

Well, I had a Cayman and its gypsy took rope, but I don't know whether the OPs older Airon's original gypsy did - it may well be that the Cayman gypsy will fit, but it may not be the same as the original.

However as pointed out in post #10 that is only part of the answer. The Cayman is a horizontal axis with the pipe to the locker vertical after the rode goes 90 degrees over the gypsy. Rope stands a reasonable chance of falling off the gypsy into the locker just like chain, but if the drop is small, like mine was it soon bunches up and needs pushing down. for this reason, as I suggested earlier if I had a lot of rope out I used the capstan on the other side to haul it in and then stopped and transferred the chain to the gypsy while manually stowing the rope. PITA which is why on my next boat I decided not to bother with splicing the rope onto the chain.

The Airon is a vertical axis windlass which means that the rode goes 180degrees horizontally round the gypsy the drops vertically 90 degrees through the pipe into the locker. Rope does not like doing this, hence the suggestion to increase the length of chain if you think you are going to need it regularly or just shackle tope on for the odd occasion you might need it.

 

[Refueler]

All the tech and long discussion is well and good - but I wonder how many people actually know how or actually do use a 'gypsy' to haul rope ? Its not as if the chain gypsy with rope channel can haul rope same way as chain. That would mean it would have to 'bite' into the rope as there would be insufficient contact for the required friction.

Heaving rope is usually done by multiple turns on a drum - to obtain enough friction when free end is tensioned. My Royal has a combo Gypsy for rope to chain - but also a rope warping drum other end of shaft. This I would use in preference IF needed ... then once chain is sufficiently on board - stopper off and then transfer chain to the chain gypsy.

I've seen some real c***-ups where people have tried heaving rope then chain on the gypsy .......

 

[geem]

All the tech and long discussion is well and good - but I wonder how many people actually know how or actually do use a 'gypsy' to haul rope ? Its not as if the chain gypsy with rope channel can haul rope same way as chain. That would mean it would have to 'bite' into the rope as there would be insufficient contact for the required friction.

Heaving rope is usually done by multiple turns on a drum - to obtain enough friction when free end is tensioned. My Royal has a combo Gypsy for rope to chain - but also a rope warping drum other end of shaft. This I would use in preference IF needed ... then once chain is sufficiently on board - stopper off and then transfer chain to the chain gypsy.

I've seen some real c***-ups where people have tried heaving rope then chain on the gypsy .......

We use the rope gypsy every day. We haul dinghy up the side of the boat at night with it. We also use it to take my up the mast for inspections, etc. Very easy to use.
The rope gypsy can be used independent of the chain gypsy so no faffing with the chain.

 

[Refueler]

We use the rope gypsy every day. We haul dinghy up the side of the boat at night with it. We also use it to take my up the mast for inspections, etc. Very easy to use.
The rope gypsy can be used independent of the chain gypsy so no faffing with the chain.

Are you confusing the Rope warping drum with the chain gypsy ??

Warping drum in use (bad line-up I admit - but its aligned for chain to bow roller) .....

I cannot imagine anyone using the 'rope slot' in a chain gypsy to haul anything serious - let alone risk a person up a mast with such .... The Warping drum is the one to use ....

 

[Neeves]

I cannot talk for all gypsies but plenty of grip, to give serious grunt, on this gypsy for rope of the specified size - and yes it does work.

It takes 6mm chain and 12mm rope, static hold of 1,200kg and pull of 600kg more than adequate to take a man up a mast.

However windlass are NOT designed to take a man, or woman, up a mast (or ours isn't). Ours retrieves at a rate of 30m/min and I would not even think of sending anyone up the mast at that speed. We have an electric winch - which is much more sedate. If you have a capstan on your windlass you can crudely control the speed of retrieval by loosening the tension on the tail of the rope (and wear the rope) - but we have no capstan, we have 2 winches on the mast and a capstan is a decided trip hazard.



Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

Are you confusing the Rope warping drum with the chain gypsy ??

Warping drum in use (bad line-up I admit - but its aligned for chain to bow roller) .....

I cannot imagine anyone using the 'rope slot' in a chain gypsy to haul anything serious - let alone risk a person up a mast with such .... The Warping drum is the one to use ....

That is not how the chain/rope gypsy is used. Many boats have a mixed rode with a relatively short length of chain, but mainly rope and the lightly loaded ripe is retrieved first then the chain. Very common with MOBOS which don't like the weight if all chain in the bows. Generally works well if the locker is designed to take the fall of the rope.

Cannot imagine how anybody would be stupid enough to use the anchor gypsy to go up the mast - the geometry is all wrong anyway. You could use the warping drum taking the halyard through a block at the foot of the mast. This is often better than using the winch on the mast, particularly with a manual windlass where you have good control over rate and a clear view of the person going up the mast.

 

[geem]

Are you confusing the Rope warping drum with the chain gypsy ??

Warping drum in use (bad line-up I admit - but its aligned for chain to bow roller) .....

I cannot imagine anyone using the 'rope slot' in a chain gypsy to haul anything serious - let alone risk a person up a mast with such .... The Warping drum is the one to use ....

Didn't say chain gypsy. Rope drum. I did say it could be used independent of the chain gypsy

 

[Refueler]

Didn't say chain gypsy. Rope drum. I did say it could be used independent of the chain gypsy

I was just making it clearer ... there are many on here that are new to this game or never had such gear ... prompted by your use of term Rope Gypsy ... an item that basically does not exist.

As you now correctly term ... Rope Drum .... Chain Gypsy.

 

[Refueler]

That is not how the chain/rope gypsy is used. Many boats have a mixed rode with a relatively short length of chain, but mainly rope and the lightly loaded ripe is retrieved first then the chain. Very common with MOBOS which don't like the weight if all chain in the bows. Generally works well if the locker is designed to take the fall of the rope.

Cannot imagine how anybody would be stupid enough to use the anchor gypsy to go up the mast - the geometry is all wrong anyway. You could use the warping drum taking the halyard through a block at the foot of the mast. This is often better than using the winch on the mast, particularly with a manual windlass where you have good control over rate and a clear view of the person going up the mast.

I don't need lessons on anchoring with rope / rope chain / chain thank you.

And it would normally be hand hauled rope till chain can sit on gypsy ...