Roller furling difficult - any ideas, please?

Tiger Moth

Tiger Moth

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After a year's restoration of my 22' Caravela I am at the final stages and yesterday I hoisted the genoa whilst tied up in the marina. There was only a gentle breeze. This went fine until I went to furl it. I pulled on the rope but it would not budge so, despite my dislike of applying brute force, I brought a winch into play and this would rotate the drum but only with some effort. I took some pressure off the halyard and this helped a little, the jib sheet was completely freed off. More muscle was applied to the winch. I got the sail 2/3 furled but was worried about doing damage aloft so I manually unfurled the sail again and took it down. The drum rotates just fine without any load. Is this normal? Does roller furling take brute strength to function?
 
No it’s not normal, on a much larger boat, 41’, I can furl by hand a large genoa. You may have a bind when the sail is up that is wrapping the halyard around the sail, or jamming the top swivel, inside against the forestay. Both the lower drum and top swivel should rotate easily, and the halyard should move away from the top swivel at a decent angle so as not to wrap around the forestay when furling. Usually there is a deflector at the mast, below the halyard sheave, that the halyard is reeved through to establish this angle.

I would inspect the forestay at the top in case it has been damaged. Check the set up against the owners manual for furling system. If you don’t have the owners manual, state the type on here and someone may have a link to it, or a pdf copy.
 
Thank you both.
The system is completely free without a sail or any stress on it, which is what baffles me. I think I'll wait a couple of weeks when the boat is coming out of the water with the mast down and have a good look at the top end. I'll put the sail up again and try furling after releasing the backstay tensioner as well. I didn't think of that yesterday.
 
Tiger Moth said:
Thank you both.
The system is completely free without a sail or any stress on it, which is what baffles me. I think I'll wait a couple of weeks when the boat is coming out of the water with the mast down and have a good look at the top end. I'll put the sail up again and try furling after releasing the backstay tensioner as well. I didn't think of that yesterday.
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Mine works best with minimal halyard tension, not really needed anyway as I find the foil supports the luff... backstay tension seems not to matter with mine, no noticeable difference...
 
Hi TM ...

Try this :

1. Hoist the sail and with binoculars - position yourself away from boat and prefarbly to one side ... look at the halyard lead from top swivle to mast sheave ... it MUST have an angle of at least 15 deg away from the forestay ... more is better !!
2. Also look at the foil and is it a reasonably straight line from drum to mast sheave ? Many will have a very slight curve inwards - but it will be more a feeling its there - its so small.
3. Does your sail and top swivel go nearly to top of foil ? or are they well down ?

OK if #1 and you have halyard less than 15 deg or near in line with foil - then you will have trouble ... halyard wrap will happen sooner or later.

OK if #2 then if you have more than a hint of a curve (that small is due to weight of sail and foil with any wind) - then you could be causing the foil to bind on the stay ... as you furl - it can get worse -= especially if you are using a winch.

Ok it #3 then its usually a better idea to have the top swivel near to top of foil and if necessary a pendant connecting swivel to sail head ... I have a 20cm pendant on my racer and similar on my motor sailer ... this then puts the top swivel at its optimum position of the foil.

Some people go on about slacking halyard or backstays ..... sorry but I am not in that 'group' ... do that on my boats and the furling gear will soon tell you to #$%^&* ..... the 'trick' is finding the right tensions for average cruising use .. and only adjusting if you really need to.

If the drum / foil and top swivel are all rotating fine without sail - then its most likely the 3 items here ... any one of them can do it.
 
The bearings on the drum and top swivel may be jammed with hardened grease. Strip them down carefully, best over a muck bucket to catch any ball bearings, then clean with petrol and regrease before reassembly.
 
Take a look at the routing your genoa furling line takes to the drum. I took mine out of 3 surplus stanchion blocks to give it more of a direct run from the drum to the clutch back at the helm. I also changed the first swivel block with one that had more flexibility to move and track the line as it went in/out of the drum.

Furling much easier now.
 
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Having sailed small keelboats for years, some with Edwardian gunter rigs, I am frankly unfamiliar with roller reefing arrangements. From what I can gather, some have forestays and some, including mine, have just the Furlex drum and foil. Since the latter is under tension, could it be that this is causing my difficulties and that I should have a forestay to take the majority of the rig tension and rely on the halyard purely for luff tension?
 
Tiger Moth said:
Having sailed small keelboats for years, some with Edwardian gunter rigs, I am frankly unfamiliar with roller reefing arrangements. From what I can gather, some have forestays and some, including mine, have just the Furlex drum and foil. Since the latter is under tension, could it be that this is causing my difficulties and that I should have a forestay to take the majority of the rig tension and rely on the halyard purely for luff tension?
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Are you sure ??? I don't know all furling systems - but I cannot recall any that do not have a forestay ... even the old origional Wyckham Martin was based on the forestay.
The usual alloy foil is definitely not strong enough to carry sail when sheeted in ... in fact foils are easily bent / deformed ...

Which Furlex system do you have ?
 
wonkywinch said:
Take a look at the routing your genoa furling line takes to the drum. I took mine out of 3 surplus stanchion blocks to give it more of a direct run from the drum to the clutch back at the helm. I also changed the first swivel block with one that had more flexibility to move and track the line as it went in/out of the drum.

Furling much easier now.
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Make sure that the blocks have 'roller bearings' rather than just a 'shaft'. Makes a big difference.
 
Refueler said:
Are you sure ??? I don't know all furling systems - but I cannot recall any that do not have a forestay ... even the old origional Wyckham Martin was based on the forestay.
The usual alloy foil is definitely not strong enough to carry sail when sheeted in ... in fact foils are easily bent / deformed ...

Which Furlex system do you have ?
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It does not have any identification that I can find.
Doesn't the rig tension go through the luff of the sail and not involve the foil?
 
Tiger Moth said:
It does not have any identification that I can find.
Doesn't the rig tension go through the luff of the sail and not involve the foil?
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It shouldn't do else you wouldn't be able to take down the sail for cleaning/repairs.

A boat I was familiar with lost it's mast immediately after unfurling the genoa. Turns out a halyard wrap damaged the forestay so the rig was only being held together with the rigidity of the furled headsail. As soon as it was rolled out, all strength lost and the mast broke.

I keep my spinnaker halyard tightly clipped to the bowsprit when not in use as belt and braces against losing the forestay.
 
Tiger Moth said:
It does not have any identification that I can find.
Doesn't the rig tension go through the luff of the sail and not involve the foil?
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Have seen similar. I think it was a Barton system.

It's possible there was an additional forestay, but the sail luff was completely separate. No foil though - the rope luff took the tension. Can't remember.
 
Tiger Moth said:
After a year's restoration of my 22' Caravela I am at the final stages and yesterday I hoisted the genoa whilst tied up in the marina. There was only a gentle breeze. This went fine until I went to furl it. I pulled on the rope but it would not budge so, despite my dislike of applying brute force, I brought a winch into play and this would rotate the drum but only with some effort. I took some pressure off the halyard and this helped a little, the jib sheet was completely freed off. More muscle was applied to the winch. I got the sail 2/3 furled but was worried about doing damage aloft so I manually unfurled the sail again and took it down. The drum rotates just fine without any load. Is this normal? Does roller furling take brute strength to function?
Click to expand...
No, you should be able to do it easily by hand on a 22ft boat. The fact that it rotates easily when not under loand from the sail shows that when under load something in binding in the roller gear. Likely to be at the bottom of the furler ie near the drum, and may furlers allow you to take off the drum without disconnecting the forestay. If yours doesnt then rig the for halyard to something solid like the bow roller , slightly loosen the backstay and then disconnect the forestay so that you can get at the bottom bearings/ to see what is wrong.

As a second thought, is your backstay tight enough to prevent the mast head moving forward and causing the roller reef to bind when the foresail is tightened up? Check this out first.
 
My furler is quite sensitive to the fleeting angle of the rope going to the drum. I have a low friction eye on the bow sprit to ensure the line goes into the drum at the right angle
 
boomerangben said:
My furler is quite sensitive to the fleeting angle of the rope going to the drum. I have a low friction eye on the bow sprit to ensure the line goes into the drum at the right angle
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Mine too. If the lead from the block on the pullpit rail is not right the furling line will be rolled badly on the drum and it will be difficult(or impossible) to pull it out.
 
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