Roland Wilson Guilty!

FishyInverness said:
But the "real cause" is somewhat subjective, some might say that the car was at fault for not giving way to the right regardless of the maneouvres performed by the HGV whilst on the roundabout, some might say that the presence of an escort vehicle flashing the car with it's headlights before it decided to head out onto the roundabout should have prepared the driver to give way...real causes are always a matter for personal opinion, but the rules is the rules!
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Colregs are not as black and white as the road laws. There is no doubt that it was the action to avoid the broken down MOBO that caused the collision - without that change of plan the initial action taken by Atalanta would have been adequate
 
bedouin said:
Colregs are not as black and white as the road laws. There is no doubt that it was the action to avoid the broken down MOBO that caused the collision - without that change of plan the initial action taken by Atalanta would have been adequate
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Do please point out on the MCA video where the HK made a sudden change of course or turn rate to avoid the motor boat, and explain why you think the Atalanta was justified in responding to what they thought the HK would do and not to what she actually did.

"Hey, skip, she's going to hit us"
"Nothing to do with us, I thought she was going to turn earlier"
 
JumbleDuck said:
Do please point out on the MCA video where the HK made a sudden change of course or turn rate to avoid the motor boat, and explain why you think the Atalanta was justified in responding to what they thought the HK would do and not to what she actually did.

"Hey, skip, she's going to hit us"
"Nothing to do with us, I thought she was going to turn earlier"
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Do you still not get that understanding the reason why they got into trouble "thought it was going to turn earlier" is different from accepting that as a valid excuse that lets them off?
 
flaming said:
Do you still not get that understanding the reason why they got into trouble "thought it was going to turn earlier" is different from accepting that as a valid excuse that lets them off?
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I think JumbleDuck is a Troll - better just ignore him
 
flaming said:
Do you still not get that understanding the reason why they got into trouble "thought it was going to turn earlier" is different from accepting that as a valid excuse that lets them off?
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I have repeatedly agreed with that as the reason, and in fact I think I may have said so before you did. I was taking issue with Mr Bedouin's interesting suggestion that "There is no doubt that it was the action to avoid the broken down MOBO that caused the collision".
 
JumbleDuck said:
I have repeatedly agreed with that as the reason, and in fact I think I may have said so before you did. I was taking issue with Mr Bedouin's interesting suggestion that "There is no doubt that it was the action to avoid the broken down MOBO that caused the collision".
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Well, I said so here the day after the collision, 2 years before you joined the forum. Think I've been pretty consistent on this. http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...anker-Yacht/page14&highlight=cowes+week+crash

Don't forget that the ship did sound starboard, then sound port, then sound starboard. That had to have influenced the thinking on board. And I can fully understand their desire not to be on the Starboard bow of a tanker in that position, because you know it's going to turn to starboard soon, but when!? They just hadn't appreciated the full situation, that they had effectively already crossed its bows, and sailing towards their next mark was the right move.

But after countless threads, heaps of derision poured on the bloke, and tons of comments by posters both well in formed and clueless perhaps we could let this go now? The chap's been convicted, those of us who race a lot in that area have studied the reconstruction and tried to apply the lessons from it. Time to move on.
 
:(

bedouin said:
Colregs are not as black and white as the road laws. There is no doubt that it was the action to avoid the broken down MOBO that caused the collision - without that change of plan the initial action taken by Atalanta would have been adequate
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Colregs clearly states that it is not an excuse to say that the Vessel collided with did not do what I (Skipper) thought it was going so to do! It altered course without me being aware of it altering course :( your Honour
 
flaming said:
Don't forget that the ship did sound starboard, then sound port, then sound starboard. That had to have influenced the thinking on board. And I can fully understand their desire not to be on the Starboard bow of a tanker in that position, because you know it's going to turn to starboard soon, but when!? They just hadn't appreciated the full situation, that they had effectively already crossed its bows, and sailing towards their next mark was the right move.
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I agree completely. I don't think their medium term decision making can be faulted: turning to starboard was the right thing to do. The problems were in failure to appraise correctly the situation as it developed thereafter and in failure to take effective action in the very short term when it should have been apparent that (a) the HK was going to hit them if they did nothing and (b) the HK couldn't hit them if they turned to port.

As for letting it rest ... well, yes. I think almost everyone agrees that it was a cock-up, that the penalty (if not the costs bill) was reasonableish and that the best thing to do now is to learn lessons and avoid it happening again. As long as couple of white-knighters continue to post rather eccentric theories, though, curiousity is going to be piqued. It'll all die down eventually.
 
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Capt Popeye said:
:(

Anyways, in considering the 'rights and wrong' of Harbour Authority Rules, Court Judgements, Colregs, Sail over Power, restricted by Draught etc etc; there is also a regulation in Part B, steering and sailing rules, Rule 6. Part A General. 3 that requires all vessels to navigate safely and at safe speed so as to avoid the risk and avert a collision
Having viewed the Video of the incident in question, I assume that the fleet of similar sized Yachts sailing in a group passed the collision were also in the same Yacht Race, these Yachts appeared to flying along, at quite a lick, so were they obeying / complying with this rule of safe speed?
I do wonder how this should apply, as in this case, to a Yacht Race organised in such Public and Crowded waters with Commercial Shipping being given some priority due to navigational restrictions :confused:
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Why pick on the race boats who were no where near or kept clear.

I believe R 6 aplies to Big Red Tankers. Just as equaly as racing sail boats.
 
JumbleDuck said:
There is a cycle race on public roads in Scotland which not only closes off roads but traps residents inside the course for the best part of a day, with no crossings allowed. The locals have retaliated with tacks on the road, and I have to say I am in complete sympathy with them.
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Nice ...

Do you have a link to these races?
Just, unless it's crit racing it's exceedingly unusual to close off roads completely for a day - and crit racing is generally in the evening - they've done it for Pro races - and for the Nationals ... but these are well advertised in advance, few and far between and I believe there are designated crossing points.
Putting down tacks is extremely dangerous - one commuter ended up in hospital with a broken collarbone when "local residents" retaliated against a sportive using this method. The Police were very interested as well.
 
fireball said:
Nice ...

Do you have a link to these races?
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http://www.pitlochry.org/whats_on/etape-caledonia.htm

There ya go, I have had to detour once because of this, I didn't feel it ruined my life!....I do not agree or have sympathy with anyone who deliberately tries to harm people due to their inconvenience, the tacks on the road was abhorrent! (Sorry, fred drift)

(Then again, I used to live on the Isle of Man and had to hop over people's fences in order to be able to go to work, for two weeks every year, perhaps i'm just tolerant)
 
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FishyInverness said:
There ya go, I have had to detour once because of this, I didn't feel it ruined my life!....I do not agree or have sympathy with anyone who deliberately tries to harm people due to their inconvenience, the tacks on the road was abhorrent! (Sorry, fred drift)
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There might be some boating relevance in conflicts between leisure pursuits and local residents. There is quite a bit of cycle racing where I live, and I have no problem at all with the mild inconvenience of occasional delays. However, I think I would be pretty peeved if I was told that for a whole day I would not be able to get to or from my house. After one tack incident a local resident was arrested, but he was cleared of all charges.
 
"One crew member suffered minor head injuries and another abandoned ship after the collision with the 120,000-tonne tanker."

Did the one abandon ship or fall over board?
 
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