Roland Wilson Guilty!

[mainsail1]

People keep rabbeting on about the fact that he was an RN Officer and assume that he must be competent to skipper a boat. Well, first of all there are different kinds of RN Officer and he may well be one who has been on the engineering side or the weapons electrical. Even if he was on the 'navigation' side they have precious little time these days to learn much as they have cut back enormously on what I would call the 'basic' training when they join up, such as how to drive a boat or ship. They seem to leave the more comprehensive training until later in their career and as he came out of the RN early, maybe he never received that training.
I speak as an ex RN Officer from the days when they did a great job of training you as soon as you joined! I was also an RNR Officer and I can tell you they certainly have a few shortcomings in the seamanship department but that is another story.

 

[Bru]

Is it possible, I wonder, that his being ex-RN and current RNR is why he went for a not guilty plea hoping against hope that his defence could manage to get him off?

It seems daft otherwise but are there, or might there be, consequences resulting from the conviction beyond the fine and costs that made it worth pursuing what must have always been at best a bit of a lost cause?

Just wondering

 

[chanelyacht]

Would an instant Fine from MCA not have been more sensible?

The MCA do not currently have the legal power to do this.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Is it possible, I wonder, that his being ex-RN and current RNR is why he went for a not guilty plea hoping against hope that his defence could manage to get him off?

I also wonder why he went down the not guilty route.

Maybe his case was stronger than has been reported in the press.
Maybe he had insurance to cover him for criminal fines but he had to plead not-guilty to claim.
Maybe he is out of work and thought with time to spare and insurance for costs it was worth a punt.
Maybe the escort boat told him in no uncertain terms he must sail due south on his compass and no other direction and he felt that in doing so some blame should go to them.
Maybe he wanted to go down the not guilty route for the look out offence and for some reason because of that pleading not guilty to the other two charges made sense for some technical reason that hasn't been reported.
Maybe Wilson's legal guy/team had a cast iron defence and the district judge simply made the wrong decision for some technical reason we're not aware of.
Maybe Wilson's legal guy/team convinced him he had a stronger case than he really had purely to get some work.
Maybe he felt that all publicity is good publicity and it might attract some interest in his dinghy designs.


We could all think of a dozen possible reasons, I doubt we'll ever find out the truth.

One thing's for sure, since the end of this trial not one small leisure boat has deliberately rammed the bow of a moving tanker so the deterrant effect of this trial is proven beyond doubt. Due to this case we're all fighting the temptation to sail under tankers.

 

[Uricanejack]

Perhaps we should look at this from a different direction. Wilson was ex RN and the boat stuffed full of RN types. He was presumably a reasonably experienced and competent skipper and the crew similarly experienced (I think). So how come he ended up colliding with a huge tanker? Most people contend he was an idiot but somehow I doubt that. Perhaps we should consider why it could have happened.

+1

 

[Uricanejack]

But I think the difference would be that you (and I) would hold our hands up and put in a guilty plea.
It's been played out here so many times before - and the released video of the boats tracks helps clarify the matter - RW turned into the path of the tanker that was operating in a restricted area. I can accept he "got it wrong" - but if that's all it was he should've admitted an error and taken the (smaller) rap for it ... but no, he has to claim "not guilty" ... it just makes him look like an arrogant exRN officer who really should know better but doesnt.

As has been said - we all make mistakes (I've sunk a boat before and nearly been sunk myself) - it's how you behave afterwards that really counts.

The problem with being charged with an offence, is you will recieve some form of punishment on permemenat public record.
It was his right to plead not guilty. He did not have to proove he was not guilty.
The prosecution had to proove he was guilty.

Having been charged he could have kept silent. (probabaly should have)

Instead he probabaly only spoke some truth down played or omited the bad parts and possibly even outright spoke inconsistantly with the truth.

What was he realy thinking we will never know.

if on the other hand this had gone through an MAIB investigation.
There is no finding of blame.
Any thing said to the investiagtion is a privliged comunication.
The report cannot be used as evidence in a criminal prosecution.

Persons not facing criminal are much more likely to be a stand up guy and speak frankly about how they screwed up.
Even persons who could face charges have been known to speak freely to investigators knowing the convesation is privliged.

(I am not absoultly certain of UK legislation re privlidge and MAIB, I am more familliar with NTSB and TSB in N. America which is very simmilar to the British system)

 

[Uricanejack]

People keep rabbeting on about the fact that he was an RN Officer and assume that he must be competent to skipper a boat. Well, first of all there are different kinds of RN Officer and he may well be one who has been on the engineering side or the weapons electrical. Even if he was on the 'navigation' side they have precious little time these days to learn much as they have cut back enormously on what I would call the 'basic' training when they join up, such as how to drive a boat or ship. They seem to leave the more comprehensive training until later in their career and as he came out of the RN early, maybe he never received that training.
I speak as an ex RN Officer from the days when they did a great job of training you as soon as you joined! I was also an RNR Officer and I can tell you they certainly have a few shortcomings in the seamanship department but that is another story.

What you say is true about the different variety of RN officers.
However I have read he was a Seaman Branch Officer. Certified Naval Watch keeping Officer and acording to him took part in training others .

The Judge made some remarks about the crew and qualifications comparing them to other yachtsmen.

While he did not specificaly say so it would apear the Judge threw the book harder because of his profesional naval qualificationand expierience.

 

[TQA]

Perhaps we should look at this from a different direction. Wilson was ex RN and the boat stuffed full of RN types. He was presumably a reasonably experienced and competent skipper and the crew similarly experienced (I think). So how come he ended up colliding with a huge tanker? Most people contend he was an idiot but somehow I doubt that. Perhaps we should consider why it could have happened.

Why well one possible reason for such poor decision making is that he was racing.

When the red mist descends people often make make very bad decisions.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Having been charged he could have kept silent. (probabaly should have)

Indeed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

 

[flaming]

Why well one possible reason for such poor decision making is that he was racing.

When the red mist descends people often make make very bad decisions.

In my view the fact that his course alterations all took him AWAY from his next mark make that explanation rather unlikely.

 

[redkat]

I realise i will get flamed for this, but I actually feel sorry for the guy. People make mistakes, nobody is perfect, although you wouldn't believe it listening to some "Jack Sparrows" that haven't possibly made any error of judgement calls in their lives. OK so it was a big error judgement but he won't be the first and he certainly won't be the last or perhaps only admirals that went to sea at 12 and are now 65 should be allowed to go yachting - as they couldn't possibly make any human mistakes

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

In my view the fact that his course alterations all took him AWAY from his next mark make that explanation rather unlikely.

+1

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I realise i will get flamed for this, but I actually feel sorry for the guy. People make mistakes, nobody is perfect, although you wouldn't believe it listening to some "Jack Sparrows" that haven't possibly made any judgement of error calls in their lives. OK so it was a big error judgement but he won't be the first and he certainly won't be the last or perhaps only admirals that went to sea at 12 and are now 65 should be allowed to go yachting?

+1

How many sailors have never broken a ColReg?

Having said I think most people on the whole have been pretty understanding on this thread.

 

[Uricanejack]

I realise i will get flamed for this, but I actually feel sorry for the guy. People make mistakes, nobody is perfect, although you wouldn't believe it listening to some "Jack Sparrows" that haven't possibly made any error of judgement calls in their lives. OK so it was a big error judgement but he won't be the first and he certainly won't be the last or perhaps only admirals that went to sea at 12 and are now 65 should be allowed to go yachting - as they couldn't possibly make any human mistakes

+2

 

[fireball]

I realise i will get flamed for this, but I actually feel sorry for the guy. People make mistakes, nobody is perfect, although you wouldn't believe it listening to some "Jack Sparrows" that haven't possibly made any error of judgement calls in their lives. OK so it was a big error judgement but he won't be the first and he certainly won't be the last or perhaps only admirals that went to sea at 12 and are now 65 should be allowed to go yachting - as they couldn't possibly make any human mistakes

As I said earlier - I can understand he made a mistake - although I can't quite fathom out how he got his boat into that situation to start with, I appreciate that sometimes these things just occur. I could guess at attributing the mistake to his thought that the HK would turn to starboard earlier/more sharply than she did - therefore he did not want to pass down the starboard side.
But - he should not have been in that area to start with - and he should've recognised that - had he held his hands up and said "oops, sorry" then I'd have sympathy for him... as it stands I have no sympathy for him - if he can't appreciate that he was in the wrong in that then does he also argue every RRS protest to the nth degree rather than just accept he was in the wrong?

Sail Racing is a gentlemans sport - nothing to do with wealth or privilege - it's a way of racing - break a rule & take the punishment.

 

[redkat]

As I said earlier - I can understand he made a mistake - although I can't quite fathom out how he got his boat into that situation to start with, I appreciate that sometimes these things just occur. I could guess at attributing the mistake to his thought that the HK would turn to starboard earlier/more sharply than she did - therefore he did not want to pass down the starboard side.
But - he should not have been in that area to start with - and he should've recognised that - had he held his hands up and said "oops, sorry" then I'd have sympathy for him... as it stands I have no sympathy for him - if he can't appreciate that he was in the wrong in that then does he also argue every RRS protest to the nth degree rather than just accept he was in the wrong?

Sail Racing is a gentlemans sport - nothing to do with wealth or privilege - it's a way of racing - break a rule & take the punishment.

As a lowly "day skipper" i cant help but wonder why the hell commercial shipping was even allowed to be in that area for Cowes week! I mean, I can't remember the last time that i saw Sebastian Vettel crash into a dustbin lorry whilst racing around Monaco or the pilots from the Red Bull air races in London crashing into a 737 bound for Tenerife. Would it be absolutely crazy to just have a break during racing? Oh yes it would, wouldn't it? as i forgot that money and commercial enterprise rules the world .....am i missing something?

 

[DJE]

Why well one possible reason for such poor decision making is that he was racing.

In my view the fact that his course alterations all took him AWAY from his next mark make that explanation rather unlikely.

Yes his last minute course alterations took him away from his next mark. But it seems to me that it could have been racing pressures that got him into such a dangerous position in the first place. If I was sailing that leg as a cruising skipper my overiding priority would be to pass safely astern of the ship. Even with the kite up I could do this easily by keeping close to Gurnard Buoy until I could safely gybe behind him. This may have entailed staying on an unfavourable shift and sailing into an area with less wind but so be it.

My guess is that he tried to sail the best racing line for as long as possible gybing on the shifts, looking for good tide and wind, covering other competitors, etc. and letting the ship slip down in his priorities. As a result of all this he finds himself in a position where he can't carry the kite and sail a safe course to avoid the ship. At this point the brave decision would have been to take the kite down and get clear - but he pressed on. I'm sorry to disagree with Flaming here but I think the fact that he was racing had a lot to do with the accident.

 

[rotrax]

As a lowly "day skipper" i cant help but wonder why the hell commercial shipping was even allowed to be in that area for Cowes week! I mean, I can't remember the last time that i saw Sebastian Vettel crash into a dustbin lorry whilst racing around Monaco or the pilots from the Red Bull air races in London crashing into a 737 bound for Tenerife. Would it be absolutely crazy to just have a break during racing? Oh yes it would, wouldn't it? as i forgot that money and commercial enterprise rules the world .....am i missing something?

So you think the sport of Sailing and should take precedence over the movement of ships which, since we no longer manufactuer as much as we used to, bring the essentials of modern life to these shores and take away the stuff we do make for valuable currency.

If the situation is looked at logicaly, sailing would be the one to suffer.

It is a very arrogant premis to suggest sailing is more important than the safe passage of large vessels who often have limited times and routes into and out of Harbours-and who's cargo's are far more valuable to the wellbeing of our country than the money spent at Cowes week.

The racing rules appear to accept this-competitors have to obey the colregs and local rules put in place by Harbour authorities.

IIRC some Fastnet crews-or crew-was sanctioned for not crossing a TSS correctly off Lands End.

The Status Quo appears to work-dont rock the boat............

 

[fireball]

As a lowly "day skipper" i cant help but wonder why the hell commercial shipping was even allowed to be in that area for Cowes week! I mean, I can't remember the last time that i saw Sebastian Vettel crash into a dustbin lorry whilst racing around Monaco or the pilots from the Red Bull air races in London crashing into a 737 bound for Tenerife. Would it be absolutely crazy to just have a break during racing? Oh yes it would, wouldn't it? as i forgot that money and commercial enterprise rules the world .....am i missing something?

Unlike a F1 race circuit - the Solent is not in private ownership. If you'd read the rest of the threads on this you'd understand that it is quite normal for commercial vessels (tankers, containors & ferries alike) to carry on their normal activity and for sail racing to take place around them. There are rules & regulations - both general and specific to this area - that control how vessels should behave and this seems to work for the vast majority of the time.
You forget (or don't want to realise) that the Solent is a LARGE piece of water and even a thousand racing yachts take up very little of the available room - so why do commercials/racing need to be scheduled to avoid being in the Solent with each other?

Btw - "lowly Day Skipper" means very little - you could've got that this season or you could've been sailing all your life ...

 

[redkat]

So you think the sport of Sailing and should take precedence over the movement of ships which, since we no longer manufactuer as much as we used to, bring the essentials of modern life to these shores and take away the stuff we do make for valuable currency.

If the situation is looked at logicaly, sailing would be the one to suffer.

It is a very arrogant premis to suggest sailing is more important than the safe passage of large vessels who often have limited times and routes into and out of Harbours-and who's cargo's are far more valuable to the wellbeing of our country than the money spent at Cowes week.

The racing rules appear to accept this-competitors have to obey the colregs and local rules put in place by Harbour authorities.

IIRC some Fastnet crews-or crew-was sanctioned for not crossing a TSS correctly off Lands End.

The Status Quo appears to work-dont rock the boat............

The country wouldn't grind to a halt because of a few delays in cargo. I also suggest that its not "sailing" that is more important than large vessels but i do suggest the wider picture that for the sake of a week "people are more important than money and commercial enterprise" - Ok so wealthy companys might lose a few quid - big deal. Were we put on this earth to live or make money. I could understand youre argument if the country was desperate for food etc