Roland Wilson Guilty!

[JumbleDuck]

I would have expected the 3rd party bit of his insurance to cover this sort of thing.

It looks to me as if he may be OK if he has GJW legal cover (through Amicus):

Section 2.
You are covered for Adviser's costs to defend criminal prosecutions against You arising
directly out of Your ownership or use of the Vessel. There is no cover for offences of
dishonesty or violence or where You are accused of having obtained or attempted to obtain
a financial advantage. Pleas in mitigation will only be supported if there is a real prospect of
the plea reducing the penalty.

DEFINITIONS

1 Adviser The lawyer or other professional adviser acting for You under this extension.
2 Adviser's Costs Reasonable legal fees and disbursements essential to Your claim and assessed on the standard basis of assessment. Third party costs shall be covered if awarded against You and paid on the standard basis.​

On the other hand, it doesn't sound as if his defence was funded by his insurers.

 

[rotrax]

I think that comment just shows how limited your experience of the Solent is...

+1!

 

[l'escargot]

Thank you. It looks as if the must-be-payable-within-a-year business has gone now.

The general rule was that a defendant should not be ordered to pay costs in such a sum, which through lack of means, could not be paid within a reasonable period of one year. However the case of R v Olliver and Olliver, 11 Cr.App.R.(S)10, CA where fines, costs and compensation would take two and half years to pay by instalments it was held that there was nothing wrong in principle with the period being much longer than a year, provided that it was not an undue burden and so too severe a punishment, having regard to the nature of the offence and the offender.​

I think bankruptcy would fall into the "...undue burden..." category...

 

[l'escargot]

That's what he's cost the MCA (aka - us) so why shouldn't he repay us?

He hasn't cost us anything, you won't get a bill. If people can't defend themselves in court because they fear losing a hundred thousand pounds there is going to be a lot less justice in the world and a lot of unwealthy people walked over by the wealthy.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I think bankruptcy would fall into the "...undue burden..." category...

Moi aussi.

 

[Twister_Ken]

He hasn't cost us anything, you won't get a bill. If people can't defend themselves in court because they fear losing a hundred thousand pounds there is going to be a lot less justice in the world and a lot of unwealthy people walked over by the wealthy.

How is the MCA financed?

 

[savageseadog]

In case anyone thinks Mr Wilson is alone in being an idiot, watch what professional, commercial skippers can do:

 

[l'escargot]

How is the MCA financed?

When did you last send them some extra money to meet an unexpected bill? It is just part of their normal expenditure for which they are already funded. Anyway, it looks like they will get paid back through insurance or similar.

 

[maxi77]

I think this is a contemptible post made by someone who must never have made a mistake

Oh I have made mistakes, even in naval parlance had my horoscope read, but I have never endangered mine and others lives in such a way. The reality is that he very nearly killed his crew and himself, that is not a minor hiccup, not only should he be punished but the punishment needs to be sufficient to ensure that others think twice before making the same error of judgement.

 

[flaming]

Oh I have made mistakes, even in naval parlance had my horoscope read, but I have never endangered mine and others lives in such a way. The reality is that he very nearly killed his crew and himself, that is not a minor hiccup, not only should he be punished but the punishment needs to be sufficient to ensure that others think twice before making the same error of judgement.

Ok, so I race in those waters every weekend. By your logic the only thing stopping me committing a similar error of judgement is the fact that it is illegal.

Do you honestly think I am less likely to put myself and my crew in danger next weekend because of the fine?

Of course not, it's the not wrapping myself around the front of a big orange tanker that tends to focus the mind.

People make mistakes. Some of us have probably made bigger mistakes than Atalanta, but got away with them through shear luck. I've seen cruising crews heading across the path of a big ship sitting in the cockpit clearly utterly oblivious to its presence until it starts sounding 5 blasts. I'd argue that's an awful lot worse. But they didn't get hit, so we don't hear about them.

He made a mistake, a pretty big one, and made it about as publicly as it was possible to have made it.

 

[Uricanejack]

In case anyone thinks Mr Wilson is alone in being an idiot, watch what professional, commercial skippers can do:

It was only a little red tanker. Must have been much harder to see. Especialy if you don't do a shoulder check before you pull out.
difficult to tell but looks like some paint may have been exchanged

 

[jrc1983]

In case anyone thinks Mr Wilson is alone in being an idiot, watch what professional, commercial skippers can do:

The difference in this kind of case being that it often leads to Professional suicide, i.e. certificate of competency cancelled and possible charges of negligence. However your average WAFI gets to go out next weekend, and the one after that and the one after that and do it all over again.

 

[fireball]

Ok, so I race in those waters every weekend. By your logic the only thing stopping me committing a similar error of judgement is the fact that it is illegal.

Do you honestly think I am less likely to put myself and my crew in danger next weekend because of the fine?

Of course not, it's the not wrapping myself around the front of a big orange tanker that tends to focus the mind.

People make mistakes. Some of us have probably made bigger mistakes than Atalanta, but got away with them through shear luck. I've seen cruising crews heading across the path of a big ship sitting in the cockpit clearly utterly oblivious to its presence until it starts sounding 5 blasts. I'd argue that's an awful lot worse. But they didn't get hit, so we don't hear about them.

He made a mistake, a pretty big one, and made it about as publicly as it was possible to have made it.

But I think the difference would be that you (and I) would hold our hands up and put in a guilty plea.
It's been played out here so many times before - and the released video of the boats tracks helps clarify the matter - RW turned into the path of the tanker that was operating in a restricted area. I can accept he "got it wrong" - but if that's all it was he should've admitted an error and taken the (smaller) rap for it ... but no, he has to claim "not guilty" ... it just makes him look like an arrogant exRN officer who really should know better but doesnt.

As has been said - we all make mistakes (I've sunk a boat before and nearly been sunk myself) - it's how you behave afterwards that really counts.

 

[A1Sailor]

The difference in this kind of case being that it often leads to Professional suicide, i.e. certificate of competency cancelled and possible charges of negligence. However your average WAFI gets to go out next weekend, and the one after that and the one after that and do it all over again.

What's a WAFI?

 

[[70521]]

What's a WAFI?

I quite like this one

Wind Assisted Fu&&ing Idiot

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Wafi

 

[FishyInverness]

or, from the opposite end of the spectrum...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wafi

Take your pick!

 

[Keen_Ed]

wind assisted flipping idiot

 

[flaming]

But I think the difference would be that you (and I) would hold our hands up and put in a guilty plea.
It's been played out here so many times before - and the released video of the boats tracks helps clarify the matter - RW turned into the path of the tanker that was operating in a restricted area. I can accept he "got it wrong" - but if that's all it was he should've admitted an error and taken the (smaller) rap for it ... but no, he has to claim "not guilty" ... it just makes him look like an arrogant exRN officer who really should know better but doesnt.

As has been said - we all make mistakes (I've sunk a boat before and nearly been sunk myself) - it's how you behave afterwards that really counts.

Lot of truth in that.

 

[savageseadog]

Perhaps we should look at this from a different direction. Wilson was ex RN and the boat stuffed full of RN types. He was presumably a reasonably experienced and competent skipper and the crew similarly experienced (I think). So how come he ended up colliding with a huge tanker? Most people contend he was an idiot but somehow I doubt that. Perhaps we should consider why it could have happened.

 

[flaming]

Perhaps we should look at this from a different direction. Wilson was ex RN and the boat stuffed full of RN types. He was presumably a reasonably experienced and competent skipper and the crew similarly experienced (I think). So how come he ended up colliding with a huge tanker? Most people contend he was an idiot but somehow I doubt that. Perhaps we should consider why it could have happened.

Evidentially you missed the other threads where that was discussed quite a lot.