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Should have pleaded guilty and saved a whole load of costs.
Roland Wilson Guilty!
- Thread starter cryan
- Start date
dom
Well-Known Member
That does not necessarily mean they will pay the costs from the other side. It is true that under UK law a general principle exists that costs should not be disproportionate, so Microsoft would not be awarded $20 million legal costs if a punter sued it for something small. But, it is a subjective decision very much up to the judge, who has a margin of discretion the HK could easily sail through. And the problem with appeals is that it raises the stakes even higher.
I cannot even begin to understand why a not guilty verdict was ever entered in the first place.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
It would have cost him much less had he just said " Sorry, i cocked-up, Its a Fair cop Gov". Instead he has the privilege of paying for Barristers to have a holiday in the sun over Christmas
Allan
Well-Known Member
Yes, I take your point about what they/we will pay, I guess we will never know.
When was a not guilty verdict entered? I thought this was the first court case?
Allan
prv
Well-Known Member
Talulah
Well-Known Member
I am offended by the Judges summing up.
Who do I sue?
I assume being a District Judge he's fairly low in standing. His summing up puts him even lower in my book.
"This was not some Saturday afternoon jaunt by some inadequate vessel crewed by inexperienced, clueless and foolhardy people who frankly have no business being on the water at all."
Who do I sue?
I assume being a District Judge he's fairly low in standing. His summing up puts him even lower in my book.
"This was not some Saturday afternoon jaunt by some inadequate vessel crewed by inexperienced, clueless and foolhardy people who frankly have no business being on the water at all."
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benjenbav
Well-Known Member
This was a very, very minor case. We've only got hot and bothered about it because it's our hobby and, tbh, watching someone crash into something the size of Swindon is really quite amusing.
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Don't see why. 99.9999% of Solent sailors manage to stay out of the way of the heavy metal most successfully under the existing rules and regs. I think Rolly Wotsit is merely the exception that proves the rule.
Talulah
Well-Known Member
Understood but I wonder if he has a thing against racers.
Sailing a Bavaria 36 from Port Solent
District judge Anthony Callaway shows Yachting Monthly round his yacht and home waters
Read more at http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/magazine/50123/summer-2012#0V2sCyP04s8Kpds2.99
BruceDanforth
Well-Known Member
FishyInverness
Well-Known Member
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?374841-Atalanta-of-Chester-Hanne-Knutsen-trial/page7
Post #65 - It would appear that the judge is a sailor. I suspect his quote is trying to point out that in this instance, the accident was not caused by someone who could claim ignorance or incompetence, as oppose to referring to non-professional seaman as fools....
dom
Well-Known Member
PEJ
Well-Known Member
DJE
Well-Known Member
“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what.”
― Stephen Fry
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
A few years a go a rather enthusiastic physics lecturer managed to run up a £14,000 costs bill when he tried to prove that his wife (iirc) had not been speeding by brining up issues about the camera which caught her. My understanding is that they land land you with anything up to the full cost, and the more unreasonable your defence is considered to have been, the higher a proportion you'll be told to pay.
Bodach na mara
Well-Known Member
Looking at a combined plotter/video of the collision here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-wn1DM0NYE&feature=youtu.be I can see some of why the yacht skipper thought that he had at least some mitigating circumstances, but I agree that avoiding action should have been taken at a far earlier stage.
I have no idea why Atlanta was sailing on the track as shown on the plot at all. At the start of the video, it is clear that he had altered course to starboard before the plot action started. Had he remained on the original northeast track, there would have been no problem. The commentry allows us to hear the horn sounded to indicate the HK's starboard turn, which was aborted. Atlanta is already too close for conmfort by this time. Atlantas turn to head southwest then put them right in front of the tanker.
Following the collision, it is interesting to see the fleet of boats racing past between the camera and the tanker. They are clearly in the restricted area as marked bt pecked lines on the chart. Someone has to answer the question, why are racing courses set to cross the restricted area? Given that commercial traffic entering or leaving Southampton almost all uses the east Solent involving the turns round the Brambles, is there not enough water in the west Solent from Cowes to Hurst point to race clear of all hazardous traffic that may get in the way of yachts?
I have no idea why Atlanta was sailing on the track as shown on the plot at all. At the start of the video, it is clear that he had altered course to starboard before the plot action started. Had he remained on the original northeast track, there would have been no problem. The commentry allows us to hear the horn sounded to indicate the HK's starboard turn, which was aborted. Atlanta is already too close for conmfort by this time. Atlantas turn to head southwest then put them right in front of the tanker.
Following the collision, it is interesting to see the fleet of boats racing past between the camera and the tanker. They are clearly in the restricted area as marked bt pecked lines on the chart. Someone has to answer the question, why are racing courses set to cross the restricted area? Given that commercial traffic entering or leaving Southampton almost all uses the east Solent involving the turns round the Brambles, is there not enough water in the west Solent from Cowes to Hurst point to race clear of all hazardous traffic that may get in the way of yachts?
Talulah
Well-Known Member
There was a camera case. It may be the same one. The prosecution brought over an expert witness from the States. He was employed by the company that made the cameras.
The defendant upon loosing the case appealed against the costs levied and won. In the appeal the judges ruled that the 'expert witness' could not have been independant and that the costs had to be proprtional.
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Couldn't see anything there which looked unusual in the HK's course.
cryan
Well-Known Member
My point in the OP was that this was not an amateur seafarer. He should have known better. His arrogance caused the accident. As an Officer he should have had the common sense to realise he was not going to win. I wonder if he had been offered a driving style fixed penalty fine of say £1000 if he would have accepted that and saved the court time and money. The expenses he has been asked to pay will be the MCA's not the court's.
I will be surprised if he ends up paying £100k.
The judge is correct in his sum up. If this had been an amateur who had got out of his depth then I would have had some sympathy but as a professional seafarer he must be held to a higher standard. And I say that as a former professional seafarer.
I will be surprised if he ends up paying £100k.
The judge is correct in his sum up. If this had been an amateur who had got out of his depth then I would have had some sympathy but as a professional seafarer he must be held to a higher standard. And I say that as a former professional seafarer.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Indeed. The other thread was full of people claiming that the HK had been weaving all over the Solent and side swiped the Atalanta while in a tightturn. In fact, as that plot makes clear, the HK had barely begun to turn and the Atalanta was clearly at serious risk of a collision well before the collision occurred.
