johnwest
Well-Known Member
The people I feel sorry for are the Captain and Pilots on board the tanker.
j
j
Roland Wilson Guilty!
- Thread starter cryan
- Start date
sailorman
Well-Known Member
It appeared to be a very busy racing day apart from the normal boating activities, many yachts under Spi
Resolution
Well-Known Member
I think that the real worry for all of us is that it could have been any of us facing a criminal charge for what was perhaps better described as a well-intentioned mistake.
Wilson clearly took action that he thought would avoid the path of the tanker. As events unrolled, perhaps confused by the verbals from the patrol boat, he made another turn which we all know now was the wrong one. Can anyone see any deliberate decision to break the law?
If this case sets a precedent in how the law is to be implemented in future, then all Solent users should take note.
Wilson clearly took action that he thought would avoid the path of the tanker. As events unrolled, perhaps confused by the verbals from the patrol boat, he made another turn which we all know now was the wrong one. Can anyone see any deliberate decision to break the law?
If this case sets a precedent in how the law is to be implemented in future, then all Solent users should take note.
yoda
Well-Known Member
I suspect that the 100,000 costs will come from his insurance and therefore will eventually be reflected in the insurance premiums for everybody else in the future.
Yoda
Resolution
Well-Known Member
The lucky one is the skipper of the powerboat that "broke down" in the path of the tanker. No-one has questioned their actions or whether they really were NUC. Certainly they did impede the tanker, which they too should have spotted minutes earlier if they were keeping a proper lookout. Did they then broadcast a Pan Pan promptly?
Anyone know?
Zen Zero
Well-Known Member
Justice seems to have given way to crowd-pleasing gestures in British courts, particularly when the case has already been judged in the press.
rotrax
Well-Known Member
Please enlighten me how justice has given way to crowd pleasing gestures.
The accused mounted a strong-and no doubt expensive -defence with the backing of his services legal team.
The case was tried in open court and reached a conclusion on the evidence heard in court.
Perfectly normal to me.
Stork_III
Well-Known Member
Whilst a Legal Protection policy may pay for your cost to defend a criminal prosecution, I doubt very much if it would pay any fines, damages, or costs awarded against you on conviction. Mine certainly doesn't.
DJE
Well-Known Member
And so they should. The precautionary area is well publicised & if you enter it when there is a big ship there you are obliged to keep clear and pass astern of it.
savageseadog
Well-Known Member
Solicitors when acting for private clients, when on the winning side routinely overstate costs. I don't know what the situation is with the CPS and their barristers. If you think about it £100K is a hell of a lot of money for not very much and shows the law to be a rip off once again. The person paying costs can ask for them to be assessed (previously known as taxation), the costs can become a case within a case.
northwind
Well-Known Member
He had his legal costs paid by The Armed Forces Legal Aid Authority
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Open if you happen to be able to attend in person on weekdays In Portsmouth. A transcript is not available without spending a small fortune. None of us know what basis these verdicts were arrived at, some of us even doubt the wisdom of one of them.
The snippets of the summing up in no way explain the reasons for the District Judge's conclusions.
I assume District Judge made the right decisions for the right reasons but for all we know a coin was flipped. So, I don't think it's remotely open.
Digressing a bit, from what I've read of the comments of the District Judge and the two Solicitors/Barristers, 90% of the precedings are utterly irrelevant chatter. The summing up is ludicrous and contains an assessment of the general capabilities of the people on the boat - utterly irrelevant to the sentence or the verdict. I get the feeling that the whole thing could have been decided in an afternoon if they'd all stuck to the point.
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l'escargot
Well-Known Member
I think that is the British adversarial legal system in general - discredit your opponent, muddy the waters and at the end let someone decide the outcome on points.
awol
Well-Known Member
PBO have reported that to be the case but it is not obvious from the Armed Forces Criminal Legal Aid Authority website that he qualifies for support. I tend to view the press as a tad unreliable as a source of facts, a view based on the rubbish they've spouted on subjects of which I have some knowledge.
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
The judge must believe that there is some support in place to pay them as the guidance is that their repayment must not be beyond the means of the defendant and reasonably repayable within one year without being an "undue burden".
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Perhaps (or perhaps not...I haven't read more than 30 posts in this thread and I gave up on the other one when it went past 40 pages)...
...perhaps the easiest official step to take, would be to supply very large ships traversing the central-Solent area during the very busy period of Cowes week, with at least two patrol boats? If the Hanne Knutsen's patrol hadn't been preoccupied with the broken-down motor boat, I expect it would have stayed to ensure the Atalanta didn't do what it ultimately did.
All very well to say everyone should steer clear - that's obvious and almost everyone does. The patrol boat is there to make sure of that - but it cannot if its attention is divided as here.
Whenever I've visited Cowes/Southampton/Portsmouth there seemed to be a large number of officials in RIBs and large workboats, rarely as busy as their paymasters might wish...
...I doubt if allocating another boat to help patrol the cordon round enormous tankers on their fairly infrequent passages through the area, would be money ill-spent.
...perhaps the easiest official step to take, would be to supply very large ships traversing the central-Solent area during the very busy period of Cowes week, with at least two patrol boats? If the Hanne Knutsen's patrol hadn't been preoccupied with the broken-down motor boat, I expect it would have stayed to ensure the Atalanta didn't do what it ultimately did.
All very well to say everyone should steer clear - that's obvious and almost everyone does. The patrol boat is there to make sure of that - but it cannot if its attention is divided as here.
Whenever I've visited Cowes/Southampton/Portsmouth there seemed to be a large number of officials in RIBs and large workboats, rarely as busy as their paymasters might wish...
...I doubt if allocating another boat to help patrol the cordon round enormous tankers on their fairly infrequent passages through the area, would be money ill-spent.
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Buy and crew one more more patrol boat because of this one incident? I'd have thought that cash would be better spent on roads where there's carnage every day.
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
Why not? Cowes HM provide escorts for the Red Jet and the car ferry through Cowes Roads to the dock so not without precedence.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
I was thinking there always seem to be a good many 'officials' floating around, just busy having a smoke. I doubt there's presently a shortage of boats & crews usable for the purpose.
True, "this one incident" was just one incident. Rare enough to have virtually monopolised this forum for long periods...so it's not as if there's an epidemic of such crashes...
...so, why have a patrol boat at all? Particularly if its presence doesn't prevent an accident like this one?
I think it's obvious we can't have super-tankers buzzing around without any accompanying officials...and if a patrol is needed at all, let it be effective. Maybe a boat on each side?
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Because the state buying, crewing and maintaining an extra escort vessel to save the mast/gelcoat of a single careless yottie every 20-30 years strikes me as very poor value. Far more important priorities.
