Rocna Style Anchor or Delta?

[Neeves]

I thought I might add

Laminar mentioned a storm in the Scillies, this is a report on the storm

Storm tactics at anchor: Surviving gales in Scilly - Yachting Monthly

Its the only report I have seen (but then I'm based in Oz and storms in the Scillies are not a high priority here, unless you are interested in anchoring). Interestingly the Storm developed when some of the forum members here were waiting, in the Scillies, for a weather window to commence a crossing of the Atlantic preparatory to spending the time in the Caribbean.

Some of them monitored the forecast and left their anchorage and 'retraced' their steps (?) to locations outside of the impact of the Storm. I know Norman argues this is not possible in Scotland -and I'm in no position to comment - but avoiding Storms seems.....good seamanship.

This is another account of a 'strong wind' event - this is what happens:

Safety at Sea: Surviving a Powerful Storm in the Med | Cruising World

This is what you are planning for and hope to enjoy a successful outcome.


Our policy is to avoid strife - but plan that making a dignified retreat might not be possible.


We cruised a 38' x 22' beam cat, 7t cruising trim, 2 x 20hp inboard diesels. 75m of 6mm high tensile chain as a primary rode and 40m of 12mm 3 ply nylon + 15m of 6mm HT chain as a second rode and enough retired dyneema halyard plus nylon to make a 3rd rode. An aluminium No 4 Excel and an aluminium A80 Spade, both 8kg, a Fortress FX 16 as a kedge and a FX23, retired to be replaced by a FX37 for soupy mud. As a snubber we used a bridle (bridles are common on multihulls) of 10mm x 30m for each side of kernmantle nylon. Our 38' cat had the windage of a AWB of about 45'/48', I measured our cat and the 45' Bav.

Technology and knowledge moves on and we would now add, those dog bone rubber things to supplement the snubbers/bridle and would replace the Spade with a Viking Odin No 40. We would commonly deploy 2 anchors in a 'V' if we expected the wind to yaw cyclically, one anchor of which would be deployed from a dinghy. We sailed our cat from slightly north of The Whitsundays to round the south of Tasmania a number of times.

Jonathan

 

[Supertramp]

So in this case, you get what you pay for!

How do Lewmar manage to make the Delta so cheap compared to similar sized anchors from reputable manufacturers? And you could say the same for the Kobra. Is there something inherent to the design that allows a thicker shank made of lower grade steel, perhaps?

All of us often make a link between cost and quality, with the inference that higher cost means higher quality (of design, materials, workmanship). But quality is fitness for purpose which is evidently difficult with anchors (or wire rigging or keels etc).

Additionally if a product is produced in large numbers relative to others then the manufacturer can benefit from economies of scale. This may be the case with the Delta which I see more of than any other anchor.

In any case, I suspect the only way to judge all this is through your own experience. If it holds when and how you use it, it fits your boat and you are happy with its appearrance then it's fit for purpose.

 

[noelex]

You need to get out more.

I’ve had the privilege of cruising extensively in both Tasmania and Scotland.

When someone advises: Don’t fret about 70 knots; simply find suitable shelter, and you won’t encounter anything more than 10 knots, I can’t help but wonder if they’ve ever anchored in challenging conditions.

Unfortunately, the reality is quite different to this fantasy.

 

[dunedin]

I’ve had the privilege of cruising extensively in both Tasmania and Scotland.

When someone advises: Don’t fret about 70 knots; simply find suitable shelter, and you won’t encounter anything more than 10 knots, I can’t help but wonder if they’ve ever anchored in challenging conditions.

Unfortunately, the reality is quite different to this fantasy.

Yes, we had 76 knot gusts very recently. Fortunately boat not lying to anchor. The wind generally just whistles round and down hillsides and cliffs - and the trees simply blew down.

 

[Sea Change]

All of us often make a link between cost and quality, with the inference that higher cost means higher quality (of design, materials, workmanship). But quality is fitness for purpose which is evidently difficult with anchors (or wire rigging or keels etc).

Additionally if a product is produced in large numbers relative to others then the manufacturer can benefit from economies of scale. This may be the case with the Delta which I see more of than any other anchor.

In any case, I suspect the only way to judge all this is through your own experience. If it holds when and how you use it, it fits your boat and you are happy with its appearrance then it's fit for purpose.

I thought it was interesting that Vyv Cox could explain how different grades of steel have different manufacturing costs. It's not just a case of manufacturers charging what they think they can get away with. I think there are genuine differences in production cost.
For example, the Spade is a fairly complicated design, with its hollow shank and lead tip, so it's understandable that it costs more than other designs which are simpler to produce.
The Rocna MK2 is another case- the profiled shank and roll bar must cost more to produce, and it sells for more than the original.
In other words, I don't think it's merely marketing, volume, etc. I think there is at least some element of genuine production cost involved.

 

[vyv_cox]

I thought it was interesting that Vyv Cox could explain how different grades of steel have different manufacturing costs. It's not just a case of manufacturers charging what they think they can get away with. I think there are genuine differences in production cost.

The weld between shank and fluke on a Rocna is a case in point. It is a single pass MIG weld, needing a seriously big current and a custom machine to apply it. Lower grade materials can get away with multi- pass stick welds, often by poorly trained operators, as the example above showed.

 

[Neeves]

Deleted

 

[Neeves]

Additionally if a product is produced in large numbers relative to others then the manufacturer can benefit from economies of scale. This may be the case with the Delta which I see more of than any other anchor.

I think you see more Deltas than any other anchor because Lewmar sell them as commissioning anchors to those who commission new yachts. I have a suspicion, because it seems logical, that a boat builder and or a company commissioning yachts buys a package from Lewmar which includes a Delta anchor. I would further suspect the prices quoted for Delta, to us, are not the prices paid when an organisation buys a package from Lewmar.

I note that Maxwell, Muir (and of course Lewmar themselves) who sell windlass also sell chain and anchors. Similarly Maxwell, as part of Vetus, may also contribute to a package that Vetus may negotiate including hatches, helm systems etc. I have noted at boat shows in Australia that nationality affiliations are an influence as some French yachts seem to be equipped (for boat shows) with Brittany anchors (and even the very occasional Kobra). I have seen a Spade on a French yacht at an Oz boat show.

The ability to sell a package makes it easier to gain a foot hold in a market, which will breed further sales and provide the volume of production to reduce prices, a bit, to the likes of you and I.

Spade or Knox, who only produce anchors have a tough time. Magazines have passed their hay day and marketing has changed to be based on Facebook (and forums). Neither Spade nor Knox will produce the numbers to allow any economy of scale.

Jonathan