RNLI vs Daily Mail

[Lon nan Gruagach]

Who has been bullied? No one in the crew was offended. The mugs were in a cupboard and then taken off station. There may be women in the crew but does not mean that they were bullied or offended. They might have thought that it was a laugh. I have some highly respectable women friends with serious jobs who have a absolutely filthy sence of humour on occasions.

What law has been broken? None unless there was bullying or offence.

What are normal standards of behaviour? People in difficult and dangerous jobs often use rough humour as a coping mechanism. Police, fire, military and nurses develop a close bond and a shared sense of humour which sometimes is a bit risqué when judged next to the standards of your local library or parish council. Look at many nurses (not old and male generally) hen parties to get a view of what is normal.

No doubt the mugs were more explicit than just a topless shot and should not have been in the station. No doubt the crew did not react well to being lectured by a Diversity and Inclusion Manager. But the escalation of the issue should have been avoided by grown up management.

My gut feel initial reaction was heavy handed, PC driven management and nothing that has emerged since has changed that. If I was a volunteer who was having a laugh with my mates with whom I had risked my life and encountered traumatic situations I would also react badly to managers who were incapable of gaining my respect by taking a mature approach.

Maybe management should have to accompany the crew on a call out, in the middle of the night, in a serious storm as part of their induction. That would melt away the snowflakes pretty quickly.

I understand that rough environments lead to rough humour, and has done for ever(?). But that does not mean it is ok. How often have historical behaviours been exposed as inappropriate?
If the volunteer's account as published above is correct to the letter then the RNLI wouldn't have a leg to stand on, even the manager in question wold be on rough ground within the charity. I feel quite confident that there is still much more that hasn't been published.

I think a big problem for the RNLI is that the backroom tasks are significantly less glamorous or rewarding as the public facing volunteers. It would be great if the calibre of management required could be provided by volunteers, but that type of skill is rarely free.

It's also important to realise that the modern (snowflake as some here insult) jobs are a requirement of all workplaces.

 

[Cheery]

Maybe management should have to accompany the crew on a call out, in the middle of the night, in a serious storm as part of their induction. That would melt away the snowflakes pretty quickly.

That was a comment I made elswhere. Maybe, just maybe, those people would then have some understanding of the black humour that gets you through difficult situations. Then, when they have returned to shore, they can get back to their quinoa salads carried home in a Fair Trade shopping bag.

 

[biscuit]

Why dismissal? Suspension for a few weeks or months would have been quite sufficient. A gross overreaction by the RNLI. In the past year or so this crew has done great work, including recovering bits of disintegrating bodies. They deserve better.

 

[robertj]

Who has been bullied? No one in the crew was offended. The mugs were in a cupboard and then taken off station. There may be women in the crew but does not mean that they were bullied or offended. They might have thought that it was a laugh. I have some highly respectable women friends with serious jobs who have a absolutely filthy sence of humour on occasions.

What law has been broken? None unless there was bullying or offence.

What are normal standards of behaviour? People in difficult and dangerous jobs often use rough humour as a coping mechanism. Police, fire, military and nurses develop a close bond and a shared sense of humour which sometimes is a bit risqué when judged next to the standards of your local library or parish council. Look at many nurses (not old and male generally) hen parties to get a view of what is normal.

No doubt the mugs were more explicit than just a topless shot and should not have been in the station. No doubt the crew did not react well to being lectured by a Diversity and Inclusion Manager. But the escalation of the issue should have been avoided by grown up management.

My gut feel initial reaction was heavy handed, PC driven management and nothing that has emerged since has changed that. If I was a volunteer who was having a laugh with my mates with whom I had risked my life and encountered traumatic situations I would also react badly to managers who were incapable of gaining my respect by taking a mature approach.

Maybe management should have to accompany the crew on a call out, in the middle of the night, in a serious storm as part of their induction. That would melt away the snowflakes pretty quickly.

Good post!!!

Having been in one of those mentioned services it’s very true black humour has a part in coping.

 

[Dutch01527]

.

It's also important to realise that the modern (snowflake as some here insult) jobs are a requirement of all workplaces.

Agreed but the nature of management should be appropriate to the circumstances. As a teenage Merchant Navy Officer I had to manage a crew of hard bitten deck hands and win their respect. That required a robust approach shall we say. My management of teams in my business life requires a different much softer approach. My management as Chairman of a adult rugby club was different to my management of a junior team.

A life boat crew is different to a social services department. Leadership is different to management. Anyone can be appointed to a management position, not everyone can lead.

 

[Sybarite]

From the BBC:



My bold. Not seen it myself but no way would I want, or condone material of that nature that in any workplace. So if true, I'm 100% behind the sacking.

I did see a photo of it and in no way could it be described as hard core; more like the saucy post cards one used to see freely for sale.

 

[Sybarite]

No doubt the mugs were more explicit than just a topless shot and should not have been in the station.

.

The photo that I saw was in fact topless but with an arm covering the appropriate parts and legs crossed as well.

 

[NorthUp]

I did see a photo of it and in no way could it be described as hard core; more like the saucy post cards one used to see freely for sale.

Then you saw the Daily Fail's version of mug. The crew men concerned have not released pictures of the mugs, which tells its own story.

 

[Sybarite]

How very sad; when a charity has a highly paid ' inclusion and diversity manager ' my deep instinct is the lunatics have taken over the asylum !

Well, they have to spend their money somehow. And, if you appoint somebody they have to act don't they?

 

[Biggles Wader]

Agreed but the nature of management should be appropriate to the circumstances. As a teenage Merchant Navy Officer I had to manage a crew of hard bitten deck hands and win their respect. That required a robust approach shall we say. My management of teams in my business life requires a different much softer approach. My management as Chairman of a adult rugby club was different to my management of a junior team.

A life boat crew is different to a social services department. Leadership is different to management. Anyone can be appointed to a management position, not everyone can lead.

Exactly so. As a MN officer you would have spent several trips at sea working with those deckies learning every aspect of the job. Its much more likely you can establish mutual respect if you fully understand the job of those you are leading and they know you know what you are talking about. Dropping in fresh out of school managers with no hands on experience is likely to cause serious divisions in many workplaces but is all too common today.
I would go further than suggest they have to go out on a shout just the once in order to tick a box on their CV and make it a requirement of the job that all managers go out regularly and often. If they find that a problem they are probably in the wrong job. Many other organisations could benefit greatly by adopting similar policies.

 

[dom]

Well, they have to spend their money somehow. And, if you appoint somebody they have to act don't they?

Interesting, would you mind giving us the gist of what the images were?

Are you sure you’re not talking about the Daily Mail images which were clearly labelled as generic photo stock illustrations?

 

[Sybarite]

Then you saw the Daily Fail's version of mug. The crew men concerned have not released pictures of the mugs, which tells its own story.

OK then.

 

[davidlhill]

Then you saw the Daily Fail's version of mug. The crew men concerned have not released pictures of the mugs, which tells its own story.

Tells it's own story? Were they expected to know they'd need them as evidence in their sacking, or to placate the internet?

 

[JumbleDuck]

I think this is a case where a picture or two would save a million words rather than a thousand. However I wouldn't condemn anyone on the basis that they didn't control what any newspaper printed about them ,,,

Very true, but in this case it seems to be exoneration, not condemnation, which relies on newspaper mock-ups ...

 

[JumbleDuck]

That was a comment I made elswhere. Maybe, just maybe, those people would then have some understanding of the black humour that gets you through difficult situations. Then, when they have returned to shore, they can get back to their quinoa salads carried home in a Fair Trade shopping bag.

As a matter of interest, how many night-time lifeboat call-outs in rough weather have you been on?

 

[Mark-1]

Interesting what everyone has taken away from this. I'm still confused about exactly what these people were dismissed for. According to the crew member's account:

"The mugs were found by an Area Lifesaving Manager and we as a crew were told that if they were taken off the station no further action would be taken. They were taken off station within 48 hours. "

On the face of it that's reasonable. I'm surprised[1] it took 48 hours to pop a mug off station but, basically, they were asked to remove them and they did. Which supports my original view that this was about the crewmember's reaction to Mug-gate rather than Mug-gate itself. In contrast to that the RNLI have said that one volunteer was dismissed over the Mug itself and the other over social media activity:

https://rnli.org/news-and-media/201...print=true&name=statement-on-whitby-situation

Dismissal over a smutty mug alone seems mental to me, to the point where I doubt the RNLI's account on this score, but that *is* what they say.

Meanwhile according to the crew member's account: "I was accused of being threatening and abusive towards a member of staff at the meeting held on the 19th of April". Which seems worse to me than either of the issues the RNLI are claiming as the reason for the dismissal and IMHO would be a reasonable cause for summary dismissal.

I'm sticking to my original guess which is that the dismissal wasn't because of the mugs, the problem was the crewmember's reaction to the request to remove the mugs and the compulsory training they received as a result.


In other news there seems to be gossip that the St Helier RNLI boat has hit rocks and has been replaced by another boat while it's repaired. Anyone confirm?



* In fact, I'm more than surprised. If an absent colleague of mine had a smutty mug on his desk which had been flagged as an issue I'd be apologising on his behalf and getting it off-site at that moment, straight down to my car or a bin outside. How did it take 48 hours? Smacks of people being awkward to me.

 

[Mark-1]

As a matter of interest, how many night-time lifeboat call-outs in rough weather have you been on?

Dunno about lifeboats but rough weather at night is something almost all of us on YBW will have experienced - it's our hobby!

 

[RichardS]

Why is it "clear" based on the account of only one side?

We have already had the RNLI account, such as it is, and now we have one of the crew accounts.

My long experience in HR had given me an instinct for such matters ..... but we'll have to await the full story before all the doubters are convinced.

Richard

 

[Juan Twothree]

In other news there seems to be gossip that the St Helier RNLI boat has hit rocks and has been replaced by another boat while it's repaired. Anyone confirm?

Mechanical problems apparently. Gone back to Poole for an engine change.

Relief boat on station.

 

[Blue Sunray]

As a matter of interest, how many night-time lifeboat call-outs in rough weather have you been on?

However, I'll bet he's watched more than a little reality TV and perhaps even read the odd book so he's an expert in what one needs to succeed wet, tired and under pressure in a life threatening situation.