RNLI and stay at home lockdown

[Halo]

Like many yachties I am a big fan of the RNLI and contribute regularly to their funding. One of the aspects I really appreciate is that they do not criticise people for making stupid errors.

I am pleased to see that the RNLI is continuing to rescue those in peril on the sea and this is admirable. Having said that I have seen a couple of media reports of RNLI rescues where people are being criticised for putting themselves at risk. I can see a situation arising where people will use the possibility of a RNLI call out as a reason to maintain the lock down on sailing – this would be very bad news for sailors and for the RNLI if it becomes perceived that that it is preventing people going to sea.

Looking at the PPE requirements for people dealing with CV19 sufferers I cannot see why RNLI crew should not be supplied with PPE and I am sure the boating community would happily raise funding to pay for it. An appeal from the RNLI to pay for PPE would be a very positive development IMHO – after all they are being called out right now!

Some people may feel that there is such a shortage of PPE that an allocation to the RNLI would be a luxury. I don’t share this view – the overall amount of PPE being used is so large that equipping a few hundred lifeboat stations would be very small fry in terms of consumption. Compare how using PPE on lifeboat call outs would stack up with how PPE is being used at a local residential home in my area. The staff there are using a complete new set of CV19 PPE (visor,mask,apron and gloves) every time they enter a clients room – even though there is no actual or suspected CV19 in the building. This is costing £960 /week for a facility with 18 residents. Compared to this the consumption on RNLI call outs would be tiny and help to reassure the rescue crew.

What do people think ?

 

[[70521]]

Is standard NHS PPE waterproof, I think not.

 

[FlyingGoose]

In regards to the RNLI it is purely a volunteer service and they know the risks before venturing out , if some of the crew were overly at risk or concerned about Covid then no one would object to them crewing down, yes this might put boats short of crew , but I do not go sailing thinking that any rescue will happen , and lets be honest most call outs in this weather and time of year are for tow ins, the RNLI around the coast deal with a lot of swimmers. people on onflatlabes etc ,
Yes they are there and I support them but I do not ever expect or will critique if they do not come ,
We can then argue well what about the coast guard or other vessels , , this argument can always be made well what about the police , fire service, ambulances that I might need when I am having to constantly go to the super market , and the pharmacists , because lock down makes it even harder
We can always try and compare risk , but its been argued so much on here that the answers are now bordering on silly

 

[SaltyC]

Apologies if this is 'Flippant' and not taking it seriously.

For inshore boats my understanding is the RNLI crew standard kit is Dry Suits, quite well sealed, visors and gloves may be an issue. As a change to procedure full hot shower on return and ALL kit will require sterilising before reuse.

Offshore kit is not 'sealed' so may present issues, however standard NHS PPE on an offshore boat in bad conditions?????

I await the Lynching mob.

 

[FlyingGoose]

Apologies if this is 'Flippant' and not taking it seriously.

For inshore boats my understanding is the RNLI crew standard kit is Dry Suits, quite well sealed, visors and gloves may be an issue. As a change to procedure full hot shower on return and ALL kit will require sterilising before reuse.

Offshore kit is not 'sealed' so may present issues, however standard NHS PPE on an offshore boat in bad conditions?????

I await the Lynching mob.

One would also expect all kit to be washed down after every use anyways , some fairy liquid and water is an excellent fat buster which will destroy the lipids surrounding the virus ,

 

[duncan99210]

Two separate sets of problems.
First, any PPE ain’t going to survive first contact with the sea. Masks will become waterlogged and useless. Visors likewise.
Sealed suits do nothing to protect the respiratory system or the mouth and eyes which are the main entry point into the body for the virus which arrives in droplets exhaled from an infected person, so it doesn’t matter if you’re thinking of either an ILB or an ALB. Impossible to retain social distancing, so any infected crew member or casualty risks infecting the crew and I can’t see how PPE would reduce this risk.
Secondly, you have to consider that a call to launch will see as many crew members as are available turning out to the station, from which a crew is assembled, so there’s more folks involved than just the crew. At what point do you slow down the launch process so as everyone can don the PPE which the actual crew will then have to remove before getting kitted up to launch?
However, I suspect that there may be some benefit in having PPE available to shore based people, who would gain some protection during launch and recovery.

 

[Triassic]

Am I really the only one becoming a little tired of this continued complaining because we're not allowed to do our hobby? This is a world wide pandemic that is having serious consequences for the lives of millions of people both from a health and economic point of view with thousands dying and many more losing their livelihood and it just comes across as extremely childish that people are not prepared to miss a few months sailing if it means the world stands a better chance of beating this bug. I personally consider myself to be extremely lucky that I have been able to hide safely at home away from all this and I am extremely grateful to all those that have had to go out and keep our country functioning as best they can. Note I said had to go out. I certainly don't have much regard for those that have looked for excuses or ways around the Lockdown and sought to justify it.

 

[johnalison]

Am I really the only one becoming a little tired of this continued complaining because we're not allowed to do our hobby? This is a world wide pandemic that is having serious consequences for the lives of millions of people both from a health and economic point of view with thousands dying and many more losing their livelihood and it just comes across as extremely childish that people are not prepared to miss a few months sailing if it means the world stands a better chance of beating this bug. I personally consider myself to be extremely lucky that I have been able to hide safely at home away from all this and I am extremely grateful to all those that have had to go out and keep our country functioning as best they can. Note I said had to go out. I certainly don't have much regard for those that have looked for excuses or ways around the Lockdown and sought to justify it.

I don't see any complaint in this thread or the replies, even though I agree with your sentiment. The OP and others appear to want the best support for those whose calling makes contact with the public unavoidable, which seems fair enough to me.

 

[RJJ]

Am I really the only one becoming a little tired of this continued complaining because we're not allowed to do our hobby? This is a world wide pandemic that is having serious consequences for the lives of millions of people both from a health and economic point of view with thousands dying and many more losing their livelihood and it just comes across as extremely childish that people are not prepared to miss a few months sailing if it means the world stands a better chance of beating this bug. I personally consider myself to be extremely lucky that I have been able to hide safely at home away from all this and I am extremely grateful to all those that have had to go out and keep our country functioning as best they can. Note I said had to go out. I certainly don't have much regard for those that have looked for excuses or ways around the Lockdown and sought to justify it.

I'm tired of the disproportionate reaction to the virus.

I'm not sure we should be going sailing particularly urgently, but I don't agree that there's the remotest benefit (in terms of transmission prevention) in stopping us attending to our precious assets.

For healthy under-50s, the risk associated with CV19 is so small you can't measure it. I'm guessing that would include most lifeboat crews; if you were an asthmatic 59-year-old with previous history of cardiopulmonary issues, you probably wouldn't take the callout but you probably aren't a lifeboat crew in the first place. The risk is not to the crew, the risk is as part of a broader chain of transmissions in the general population. I don't think people should be going sailing, but if they do, PPE for the lifeboat crew is neither here nor there.

 

[NotBirdseye]

I'm tired of the disproportionate reaction to the virus.

I'm not sure we should be going sailing particularly urgently, but I don't agree that there's the remotest benefit (in terms of transmission prevention) in stopping us attending to our precious assets.

For healthy under-50s, the risk associated with CV19 is so small you can't measure it. I'm guessing that would include most lifeboat crews; if you were an asthmatic 59-year-old with previous history of cardiopulmonary issues, you probably wouldn't take the callout but you probably aren't a lifeboat crew in the first place. The risk is not to the crew, the risk is as part of a broader chain of transmissions in the general population. I don't think people should be going sailing, but if they do, PPE for the lifeboat crew is neither here nor there.

To be fair it's not about the under 50s... it's about preventing the spread so vulnerable people don't get it. Even if you are fine, every contact you have puts a vulnerable person one step closer to death.

For example you might have unknowing came into contact with a carrier (supermarket delivery driver who is asymptomatic) you the go sailing for the day with bob as neither of you are showing any symptoms. Bob goes home to his wife who has copd. Bob's a widow.

 

[25931]

To be fair it's not about the under 50s... it's about preventing the spread so vulnerable people don't get it. Even if you are fine, every contact you have puts a vulnerable person one step closer to death.

Every step that anyone takes is one step closer to death but I'm hoping to take quite a few steps yet because I'm only 88

 

[FlyingGoose]

Every step that anyone takes is one step closer to death but I'm hoping to take quite a few steps yet because I'm only 88

Just reached the good years , hope you get out this year sailing

 

[Sybarite]

I'm tired of the disproportionate reaction to the virus.

SWMBO's bil has just got out of hospital after having had covid 19 and nearly dying. He said it was by far the worst he has ever felt in his life and wouldn't wish it on his worst enemy.

So much so in fact that he has now signed a DNR in case he ever gets another bout of it. He lost 27kg.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Am I really the only one becoming a little tired of this continued complaining because we're not allowed to do our hobby? This is a world wide pandemic that is having serious consequences for the lives of millions of people both from a health and economic point of view with thousands dying and many more losing their livelihood and it just comes across as extremely childish that people are not prepared to miss a few months sailing if it means the world stands a better chance of beating this bug.

I'm not sure that "childish" is helpful here. In due course we are going to have to end the lockdown, which is clearly unsustainable. In order to do so, we are going to have to educate everyone to behave responsibly and minimise risks without becoming a nation of hermits. I see nothing wrong or "childish" in discussing how sailing might adapt to suit, and I'd be quite surprised if it wasn't discussed here.

 

[JumbleDuck]

For example you might have unknowing came into contact with a carrier (supermarket delivery driver who is asymptomatic) you the go sailing for the day with bob as neither of you are showing any symptoms. Bob goes home to his wife who has copd. Bob's a widow.

Unless Bob dislikes his wife, Bob shouldn't be going sailing with anyone for quite a while.

 

[Juan Twothree]

To be fair it's not about the under 50s... it's about preventing the spread so vulnerable people don't get it. Even if you are fine, every contact you have puts a vulnerable person one step closer to death.

Absolutely.

Any contact with those outside our own households, whether it be those we rescue or colleagues on the crew, is an additional opportunity for infection.

We all have families at home who we wish to protect, and in my case I also have elderly parents who I have to look after, and I'd rather not subject them to any increased risk.

All lifeboat stations have put additional control measures in place, and are carrying extra PPE, but we'd still rather not have to launch just at the moment, unless we absolutely have to.

And I'm missing going sailing too!

 

[NotBirdseye]

Unless Bob dislikes his wife, Bob shouldn't be going sailing with anyone for quite a while.

I can completely agree but Bob was assured by his friend that he wasn't infected and he hadn't come into contact. So he thought 'What is the harm I am just going sailing how more isolated can you get?' Sadly it is what happens when some people are allowed to break quarantine for what are completely understandable reasons and I have the utmost sympathy with them.

People who brag about breaking quarantine inspire others to do the same and while that individual may have been on top of everything planning to the last detail... some else might not be so fortunate as they are stopped by an asymptomatic police officer or bump into an individual on a pontoon who happens to cough once but ah it's just a smokers cough. Ultimately I am siding with the experts here, it's depressing and I hope the can find a way forward but for now... we're stuck.

 

[Triassic]

I'm not sure that "childish" is helpful here. In due course we are going to have to end the lockdown, which is clearly unsustainable. In order to do so, we are going to have to educate everyone to behave responsibly and minimise risks without becoming a nation of hermits. I see nothing wrong or "childish" in discussing how sailing might adapt to suit, and I'd be quite surprised if it wasn't discussed here.

I do get your point, and discussing how things will be different in the future is not the same as complaining about the current restrictions. You only have to look through the headings all over this forum to see "Why can't I do this" or "The Dutch are doing that" or "If they can walk, cycle, tend their allotment, surf etc etc" then we should be able to go sailing!

All of those points have been pretty comprehensively discussed by both sides of the relative arguments so it's not as if there is anything new to add and I just find the incessant moaning about it, well quite franky.....childish! Some people just seem to need to grow up and have a reality check.

 

[[70521]]

I'm tired of the disproportionate reaction to the virus.

I'm not sure we should be going sailing particularly urgently, but I don't agree that there's the remotest benefit (in terms of transmission prevention) in stopping us attending to our precious assets.

For healthy under-50s, the risk associated with CV19 is so small you can't measure it. I'm guessing that would include most lifeboat crews; if you were an asthmatic 59-year-old with previous history of cardiopulmonary issues, you probably wouldn't take the callout but you probably aren't a lifeboat crew in the first place. The risk is not to the crew, the risk is as part of a broader chain of transmissions in the general population. I don't think people should be going sailing, but if they do, PPE for the lifeboat crew is neither here nor there.

If you are not sure we should being going sailing particularly urgently why in another thread do you state you have written to the RYA asking them to lobby the government so we can?

Since all this kicked off I've had there friends have it, one said it was like an annoying cough, the second described it as a very bad flu while the third has been extremely poorly for five weeks. The father of an ex-colleague has died with CV-19 as a comorbidity.

I am lucky enough to live in rural Devon and so far deaths in this region have been amongst the lowest in the country, but if we have an influx of visitors we don't have the hospitals available for long term ICU care.

The reaction is as proportionate as the government considers correct, you may disagree with them, but you are powerless to do anything more or less.

 

[SaltIre]

Some people may feel that there is such a shortage of PPE that an allocation to the RNLI would be a luxury. I don’t share this view – the overall amount of PPE being used is so large that equipping a few hundred lifeboat stations would be very small fry in terms of consumption. Compare how using PPE on lifeboat call outs would stack up with how PPE is being used at a local residential home in my area. The staff there are using a complete new set of CV19 PPE (visor,mask,apron and gloves) every time they enter a clients room – even though there is no actual or suspected CV19 in the building. This is costing £960 /week for a facility with 18 residents. Compared to this the consumption on RNLI call outs would be tiny and help to reassure the rescue crew.

What do people think ?

"Excellent idea". Let's divert PPE away from the NHS to allow yachtsmen to resume their pastime - the NHS staff can just die.
Next silly suggestion please.

Edit:
I hear the Police have inadequate PPE. Let's plunder their stocks in favour of the RNLI to allow us to go yachting...