Righting A Yacht That Has Gone Over!

[William_H]

Laying the boat over

I seem to have done it yet again yesterday. Very gusty winds and a bit short on crew. Crewman, friend says lets go for spinnaker. OK I figure he was going up front. It worked well for a while until time for gybe. With pole disconnected horrible gust or something, main gybed OK, spinnaker went skyward and before we knew it boat was proceeding toward the next mark mast first and sideways, water pouring into the cockpit sheet winch under water. Held down by the spinnaker.
We managed to release the spin sheet and she slowly rose again and with rudder back in water I managed to get on track down wind again with spin setting properly.
There was a bit of an audience including one passing boat with our inspector for racing safety. A few months back among other things he asked "is it self righting" I was able to claim it was all for his benefit just to prove self righting. (I don't think he believed me). It has a 100kg lift keel and about 200kg under the floor in 21ft hull.

That culminated an exciting weekend. Friday night we had a little race. Wind was dieing as we started, so put big jib on at last minute. (hank on) Managed to get ahead as rest of the fleet either stayed home because of forecast or had smaller sails on.With good crew we had a nice spin. run. Then later near the windward mark the easterly wind came in with a blow. From gentle up to 25knots over a few minutes. Very scary in the dark. No 2 son was helming, olewill was up on the windward side stopping the water for the crew. We managed to hold on to the windward mark and then changed down on the downwind run so no problems. I found later a couple more pulled out with the wind change so in the end an easy win.
So all very exciting and to the OP, your yacht should not fall over and if it does just wait for it to come up. olewill

 

[Strathglass]

Some years ago I broke the windex on the top of my mast while racing my Eboat with the kite up on a reach.- It hit the water.
We were well over canvased but did have the washboards clipped in place.
We just waited till the boat recovered, relaunched the kite and carried on.

It was fine when we were all young, fit and sailed together in all conditions several times a week. I would not like to do it now.

The E boat had a 660 lb lifting keel (bolted down) on a beamy 22ft boat weighing one ton.

Most yachts will have more balast and would have to be provoked very hard to get anywhere flatened before coming up again.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Look, if the OP is really that worried, may I suggest the purchase of a type of boat that is designed to NEVER go over - any of the older 1960s full keel blue water boats. Something like a Nicholson 32 (or a Vancouver, or any of a host of others) has a long solid keel with a big heavy bit of lead in it. The vanishing angle of stability for a Nich 32 is 165 degrees...i.e., almost all the way upside down! If you can get one over, the beers are on me!

I would not want to give anyone the impression that length of keel means that boat has a better angle of vanishing stability or gives some magic ability to stay upright. There are lots of fin keeled boats that have good angles of vanishing stability. Long keels mean that the boat tracks straighter and perhaps has a different and gentler approach to broaching, but you can still broach a long keeled boat and waves can still turn one over in a big enough storm.

AVS is all about hull and topsides shapes and volumes as well as ballast ratio.

To return the the OP's question, you are VERY unlikely to get even the mast in the water in coastal and channel sailing around the UK in the vast majority of production cruising boats of the last thirty years. Big lean-ons and knock downs often don't even get very close to 'mast in the water' as has been explained clearly several times. Unless you are sailing in the Southern Ocean in huge winds and waves, as far as you are concerned, the boat will right itself.

Don't worry about it!

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Very naive question but I am not used to yachts that are say 25 -30 feet. Is it it difficult to completely mess up and lose control of a boat this size dipping the mast in? If a yacht of this size is knocked flat will it just sink

Thanks Chris

Been sailing for 40 years and I've yet to see an inverted yacht other than in the papers and I dont know anyone who has.

 

[Croc]

The thread has drifted away from the "dump the kicker" technique for stopping knockdowns.
Years ago I crewed on s J24, a hot Solent boat. It was generally decided by the regular crew I was too useless to be allowed to do very much so I was put on the kicker.
The kicking strap was rigged with the same thickness rope as the mainsheet (10-12mm) with a Harken roller block set-up with their excellent mainsheet jammers. I was told to not look where we were going but to keep my eyes on the top of the mast ( this was on a three sail reach when most sane sailors were ashore) I was told if the mast moved over by more than about 15 degs to "dump the kicker".... it was amazing ..an instant response... the boat popped up and I heaved in as she came vertical and we screamed along with but a fractional pause in our progress.
Never been able to use quite the same technique on other boats because they need to be set up specifically for the purpose.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

We had a knock down in last years Classic RTI on a 50' cutter. The wooden boom weighs 90kg and there is no kicker. We did an unexpected gybe, the boom lifted and caught on the backstay. I was foredeck crew and leaning on the windward rail amidships one minute, then sliding om my @rse down a vertical deck into the ogin up to my knees the next, but still in the boat. I remember focussing on the shroud to grab that stopped me continuing over the side. The mainsail tore completely below the third reef but the 19 tons of boat came up surprisingly quickly - minus both winch handles which had been on the cockpit seat.
We tied in the third reef and carried on.

I then went and put my LJ on

Was that on CdG?

If so, James kept that quiet!!!!!

 

[Searush]

A Westerly Pageant? Apologies to W P owners but it was not my cup of tea, very low on excitement value. I will be disappointed if the Marie Holm IF boat/Contessa 26 are anywhere near similar. I want something relatively zippy, fun, efficient and easy to manoeuvre whilst on the go. I will have very low demands on interiors/cookers etc, so hope to gain a good sail instead!

Can't wait to get one and have some fun!!

Properly sailed, Pageants will win races. They have a very favourable handicap & are often sailed poorly, or with poor sails or poorly trimmed. Put a decent suit of sails on one & sail it properly & it will beat many "cruiser/racers" on handicap.

Don't be misled by the average old cruiser pottering around enjoying the scenery much like I do. Also don't dismiss the fun you can have creek crawling - watch a few of Dylan's KTL videos on U-tube.

Speed is very relative on a sailing boat & MoBo'ers will pee themselves laughing at what racers call "fast". It's great feeling to have a big boat pulling powerfully (and there is a LOT of power in a big rig) the actual speed is largely irrelevant once you hit hull speed. Sea conditions will have a big impact on the excitement levels too.

 

[Gypsyjoss]

You could always get a Fisher. Just looked at the RYA's data. All the Fishers have an AVS of 180deg! Not sure what happens in practice! When would you reach 180deg? Do you have to wear an oxygen mask while you're down there.

My Sadler32 isn't listed. Guess it would be like the Contessa at 155 deg.

 

[Ubergeekian]

You could always get a Fisher. Just looked at the RYA's data. All the Fishers have an AVS of 180deg!

Great big air-filled deck house?

 

[Searush]

Great big air-filled deck house?

Unless the windows break or fall out. Then she will fill & sink.