zarathustra
Well-Known Member
Was there much involved in designing and fitting the lead bulb to the keel, and what of cost. How did the 100kg affect speed and stability? Are you pleased with the result.
Righting A Yacht That Has Gone Over!
- Thread starter Zagato
- Start date
Was there much involved in designing and fitting the lead bulb to the keel, and what of cost. How did the 100kg affect speed and stability? Are you pleased with the result.
underdog
Well-Known Member
"Was there much involved in designing and fitting the lead bulb to the keel, and what of cost. How did the 100kg affect speed and stability? Are you pleased with the result."
I was fortunate that I had been in correspondence with another "Mischief 24" owner who had already had a bulb designed. He very kindly lent me the wooden plug he had made.
I took this to a local metal caster and had two half bulbs cast. The cost was c.£400 with me providing the scrap lead. The hardest part was drilling through the 2" cast iron keel. I out 2 cheap hand drills on the first hole.The second hole was drilled using a magnetic drill and proved much simpler. I then bolted the two bulbs to the keel set in an epoxy slurry. The result transformed the performance of the boat making it much stiffer and more able to punch through a chop.A couple of other boat owners from my club also added bulbs to their fin keelers using the same plug.
I eventually bought another Mischief 24 on Ebay and was going to make the same modification and had had the bulbs cast. However when I started to drill the keel the drill started to go through like a knife through putty. The keel on this one was lead not cast iron so as a result was some 50% heavier than the cast iron one.I didnt fit the bulb to this as I reckoned it didnt need the extra weight.
I was fortunate that I had been in correspondence with another "Mischief 24" owner who had already had a bulb designed. He very kindly lent me the wooden plug he had made.
I took this to a local metal caster and had two half bulbs cast. The cost was c.£400 with me providing the scrap lead. The hardest part was drilling through the 2" cast iron keel. I out 2 cheap hand drills on the first hole.The second hole was drilled using a magnetic drill and proved much simpler. I then bolted the two bulbs to the keel set in an epoxy slurry. The result transformed the performance of the boat making it much stiffer and more able to punch through a chop.A couple of other boat owners from my club also added bulbs to their fin keelers using the same plug.
I eventually bought another Mischief 24 on Ebay and was going to make the same modification and had had the bulbs cast. However when I started to drill the keel the drill started to go through like a knife through putty. The keel on this one was lead not cast iron so as a result was some 50% heavier than the cast iron one.I didnt fit the bulb to this as I reckoned it didnt need the extra weight.
SailBobSquarePants
Well-Known Member
If it worries you...
Look, if the OP is really that worried, may I suggest the purchase of a type of boat that is designed to NEVER go over - any of the older 1960s full keel blue water boats. Something like a Nicholson 32 (or a Vancouver, or any of a host of others) has a long solid keel with a big heavy bit of lead in it. The vanishing angle of stability for a Nich 32 is 165 degrees...i.e., almost all the way upside down! If you can get one over, the beers are on me!
Look, if the OP is really that worried, may I suggest the purchase of a type of boat that is designed to NEVER go over - any of the older 1960s full keel blue water boats. Something like a Nicholson 32 (or a Vancouver, or any of a host of others) has a long solid keel with a big heavy bit of lead in it. The vanishing angle of stability for a Nich 32 is 165 degrees...i.e., almost all the way upside down! If you can get one over, the beers are on me!
Little Rascal
Well-Known Member
He'll be alright - he's got a Folkboat!
SailBobSquarePants
Well-Known Member
Dang
How did I miss that Zagato had started this thread??? Law of averages really...he starts one out of every ten threads these days!
How did I miss that Zagato had started this thread??? Law of averages really...he starts one out of every ten threads these days!
ianat182
Well-Known Member
Whilst your fears of 360 degree knockdowns have been put to bed somewhat,as I recall
Folkboats seldom fit sets of reefing points, nor furling jibs. Reducing foresails on one therefore is not a normal activity for them. To prevent another possible crisis can I suggest you fit slab reefing, now rather than after the event. One row should suffice, leaving the jib as is.
ianat182
Folkboats seldom fit sets of reefing points, nor furling jibs. Reducing foresails on one therefore is not a normal activity for them. To prevent another possible crisis can I suggest you fit slab reefing, now rather than after the event. One row should suffice, leaving the jib as is.
ianat182
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
Another racing event, not a knockdown but we went over a lot further than we expected. This was in a 23' Extravert. We cocked up the spinnaker drop rounding the downwind mark and broached. The windex got knocked off the top of the mast when it hit the mark we were trying to round. The boat next to us reported that they were used to seeing the top of our keel, but it was the first time they had seen its bottom. No water shipped or other damage done. We popped back up and carried on. We never admitted that we hit the mark.
flaming
Well-Known Member
Tsk, Tsk....
I've had the masthead in the water when it all went very wrong with the kite up, width of the boat in question meant an angle of about 100 degrees I would guess. Exciting, but no real risk to the boat (well, except for the masthead windex, which was a little bent...)
dt4134
Well-Known Member
Being out of control is no excuse you know. Although maybe you can try claiming you were trying to do a 360 penalty turn.
Little Rascal
Well-Known Member
Depends on the Folkboat I think.
The 'proper' Nordic ones are rigged as big dinghies as you say, British and East German ones are more cruising oriented.
Old Troll
Well-Known Member
Old Troll
For those interested in Heavy Weather sailing. I see from their website that Westbound Adventures are running specialised courses out of Ardrossan in the Clyde during November. Again I have no commercial interest but know that they are experienced and knowledgeable.
For those interested in Heavy Weather sailing. I see from their website that Westbound Adventures are running specialised courses out of Ardrossan in the Clyde during November. Again I have no commercial interest but know that they are experienced and knowledgeable.
oldharry
Well-Known Member
Broaching is usually a consequence of carelessness or carrying excessive sail for the conditions. Be cautious when sailing downwind in strong conditions, especially if the seas are confused. It doesn't always feel like you need to reef when running as your speed can knock an actual F6 down to an apparent F5 for example.[/QUOTE
You mean like this?
And yes she did come back, they all survived, although they reckon a crewman in the bows was 14ft under water....
A definite case of being over powered downwind.
dt4134
Well-Known Member
Broaching is usually a consequence of carelessness or carrying excessive sail for the conditions. Be cautious when sailing downwind in strong conditions, especially if the seas are confused. It doesn't always feel like you need to reef when running as your speed can knock an actual F6 down to an apparent F5 for example.[/QUOTE
You mean like this?
And yes she did come back, they all survived, although they reckon a crewman in the bows was 14ft under water....
A definite case of being over powered downwind.
The IOR boats did have a tendency to submarine. If there was a crewman on the bows (14' under or not) that is probably the explanation. Getting all the crew weight as far aft as possible helps, even in modern boats where it reduces the tendency to broach. No reason why a competent race crew couldn't carry that much sail in those conditions.
2Tizwoz
Well-Known Member
Spinnakers can be a bit troublesome at times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMqIXr_rl4k&feature=fvst
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMqIXr_rl4k&feature=fvst
dt4134
Well-Known Member
But that just proves how not to do it. Crew weight right aft - as far as physically possible. Someone hanging onto the kicker and easing it at the first sign of a broach. Would have looked much better on camera.
I didn't see that kicker eased once during the video.
flaming
Well-Known Member
jwdorst
Active Member
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2006/silk2.php An exciting read!
dt4134
Well-Known Member
oldharry
Well-Known Member
Signed Out
Well-Known Member
Over this concern?
I wonder if you were thinking of the delivery of another folksong when it was knocked down (in a thread about damaged Hasler gear- been through every mention of these boats tonight) and got concerned... although it seems upon writing this you'd not got your's(?).
Will say I was in a knockdown in the Solent on an Impala during a race. Seem to recall it sitting there for a bit before righting, guess as main was let out. No fear of sinking and some giggling involved (OK, not from the owner), though that could've been adrenaline.
I wonder if you were thinking of the delivery of another folksong when it was knocked down (in a thread about damaged Hasler gear- been through every mention of these boats tonight) and got concerned... although it seems upon writing this you'd not got your's(?).
Will say I was in a knockdown in the Solent on an Impala during a race. Seem to recall it sitting there for a bit before righting, guess as main was let out. No fear of sinking and some giggling involved (OK, not from the owner), though that could've been adrenaline.
