Rigging life

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Quandary

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I am selling our Moody and the standing rigging while clean sound and well supported is approx 10 years old. (during which time the boat has not been raced and is only in commission for 6 months each year, in winter the mast is moused and wire and bottle screws loosely coiled and stored in our garage loft with the sails etc.). In my description I stated that I would have been happy to continue to inspect each year for up to about 15 years taking account of the light use, is a purchaser entitled to demand it be replaced?
 
Quandary said:
I am selling our Moody and the standing rigging while clean sound and well supported is approx 10 years old. (during which time the boat has not been raced and is only in commission for 6 months each year, in winter the mast is moused and wire and bottle screws loosely coiled and stored in our garage loft with the sails etc.). In my description I stated that I would have been happy to continue to inspect each year for up to about 15 years taking account of the light use, is a purchaser entitled to demand it be replaced?
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He isn't entitled to anything. But nor are you entitled to sell him your yacht ?. Whether you can agree to exchange is a different matter.
 
Insurance companies often have a requirement to replace after ten years. I had to have mine replaced after insurance survey. This might be your purchasers concern.
 
The purchaser can demand whatever they want. I would be inclined to state exactly what you have stated here and respectfully reject his demand on this matter. If the boat has been offered at a favourable price compared to the market, point that out. At the end of the day, rigging replacement is costly. Would an independent riggers survey be worth the cost to alleviate fears? Difficult one that. Was the rigging age stated in the selling literature, if so, you could point out that his due diligence and price reflected what was based on the advert. I bet this is his surveyor advising that.

I keep my boat in commission all year, rigging is now over 10 years old and I have had it inspected at the 10 year interval for an insurance survey, and again at tbe 12 year interval. They accepted the inspection certificate. So far, so good, so concur with your own opinion, that your rigging is likely sound as a pound.
 
I think RJJ is right. You are selling a used boat and all that comes with it.
It always pays to be as comprehensive as you can with the description. However, if you portray the boat as in good condition and it is obvious (say) that the rigging is stranded or the mast cracked then the prospective buyer has very sound points for negotiation.
You can stick to your guns, he can walk away.

If you want to be watertight in your description you could ask a rigger to look things over whilst the mast is down.

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I think the answer you’re looking for is: no, he’s not entitled to anything because it is your boat. Having said that he will however most probably ask for a discount with the argument that he can’t get insurance with a rigging older then 10 years. Independent on how good it looks.

It always comes up how old the rigging is.
 
Ask the same question again but substitute "sails", "engine" or "winches" for rigging.

I think you'll have your answer.
 
I was in the situation of being the buyer recently. The standing rigging was 10 years old on a 2nd rotation. I checked it thoroughly myself, and was happy. I had a surveyor check it as well, as part of a standard survey (it was just visual at deck level and they always have an indemnity) and the insurer was not interested in how old it was.
I have factored in replacement in my ownership in a year or two. It is buyer beware.........but can be negotiated upon.......
 
I assume they have committed to paying for a lift out and survey. I would see this as a commitment to buy with the cards stacked in your favour.
 
Quandary said:
in winter the mast is moused and wire and bottle screws loosely coiled and stored
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You say this as if moving metal parts about somehow causes less wear. Rigging left in place and properly tensioned only needs to deal with corrosion, rigging that's jigged about with twice a year has to contend with rust and work hardening as well as the risk that on any one of those 10 seasons it was not properly tensioned when put on the boat.
Call it 10 year old standing rigging and leave it to the buyer to determine whether it needs replacing. If they want to factor that into the cost then it's a negotiation. It's a sellers market at the moment so you might get lucky. Rigging is a consumable item though and yours is at the industry agreed replacement age, which absolutely should be factored into the selling price. Whether or not you agree with that is irrelevant, it's not going to be your boat going forwards, but you might get lucky and find someone who also disagrees with the 10 year replacement - this forum is full of them!
 
I've just bought a 16 year old boat with original rigging. It looks fantastic, the boat has never been raced nor crossed oceans. The rigging is heavily over specified. Nonetheless I know it has to be done soon, for peace of mind, and have a quotation for renewing at £5k (everthing north of the chainplates). I recently saw a video of a sailing blogger who happened to have the videocam running at the precise moment the rigging failed and the who lot went over the side (but it was a chainplate that snapped). I'll admit that the video motivated me along the road a little....
 
I am in exactly the same situation from a buyer's point of view. The seller is selling as is according to the description subject to a structural survey. The rigging is more than 10 years old but like everything else no comment is made about its condition. Other items such as engine, sails, electrics are just described and dates given for when fitted and a maintenance log if appropriate.

In my view a seller should not offer any opinion as to condition, likely future life or suitability - it is up to the buyer to base his offer on what he sees.

So in your situation you have declared the rigging is over 10 years old, and he can't come back after agreeing a price to get a further reduction, for example if his survey/insurer insists on replacement. The purpose of the survey is to confirm the boat is as described. The standard ABYA contract does allow the buyer to reject the boat at his discretion if he considers the boat defective or require work to be done / reduction in price if the defects "affects the operational integrity of the vessel or her machinery or her systems and/or renders the vessel unseaworthy".
 
Agree with the comments above - there is no entitlement to anything, but if the purchasers insurance requires it to be replaced, and in the absence of a survey to the contrary it's likely to be a haggling point. If there is no requirement, either by survey or insurance then it's a matter of personal opinion - yours v theirs...

It's so incredibly difficult when it is something we own and covet, but try to take the emotion out (opinions are not facts), and a way forward can always be found. You will either agree a price, or not :)
 
As others have said, no the purchaser cannot insist that you replace the rigging - and should not be tempted to get involved in a debate on this.
Clearly the buyer should have factored this into their offer - and may try to use this and any survey points to try to get a bit of reduction. That becomes your call on whether to negotiate price or not. But entirely a matter of sale price - if any rigging is to be replaced, an easy job for the buyer to commission post sale.
 
If you have the rigging /mast down, why not get a price for replacement rigging.. it may be much cheaper than you or a buyer expects and you could use the prospect of new rigging as a plus point...mine was less than pounds this year 1000 for 35 footer with 8mm wire.
 
I bought my first boat and had a pre purchase survey. It threw up several issues including the serviceability of the standing rigging. I think I negotiated a small price reduction but the seller stated that he had carried out some replacement but had no evidence of it so my surveyor advised that, without of replacement ever, I should assume it was the original rigging and factor in replacing the lot.
There were various factors affecting the price and that boat had quite a few positives like new oven, calorifier, engine, Eberspacher and new Raymarine stuff so I was happy to go ahead. In the end I bought it near the asking price and paid £1000 for a full re-rig.
In the end, neither party can force the other to accept a deal. If the buyer doesn't accept your offer, you just have to walk away. A boat is not like a car, there's not a Parker's guide so when buying you just have to work out how much it's worth TO YOU.
 
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