Riding turns

[Peppermint]

Crikey I'm getting a lot out of PBO for May.

This idea that the riding turn on a sheet is a big problem is interesting.

Now a rider on the main halyard when you'd like to reef is even more interesting.

As to the jib sheet idea.
Firstly luffing should give you enough slack to fix the problem. But watch your fingers.
Secondly you can use the lazy sheet to take the strain.
Thirdly You can usually winch the thing out if you cross the cockpit with the sheet tail but it shouldn't be necessary.

I was always taught that the line you'd hitch to the say sheet should be of smaller diameter than the sheet. Anybody else heard this?

You can use a prussic knot if your rolling hitch ain't much cop. Has anybody tried this?

I'm a bit bothered with the idea of running downwind to sheet in the jib too. We just luff for that too.

Weird article.






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[paulineb]

wow - how complicated life is on a raggie.

'riding' on a motor cruiser has a completely different and far more enjoyable meaning.


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[Aeolus_IV]

Will have to look up this article as since we've changed our primary winches to self tailing ones we seem to pick up riding turns more frequently. I am finding this difficult to understand as in size and shape the new winches are almost the same size as the old ones. If we can work out what some of the causes are (other than simply winding on the sheet with it not properly wound on), then we can look at how to avoid them. At the moment I am thinking that a combination of tired sheets and a new winch drum are top candidates.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Regards, Jeff.

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[Peppermint]

If most things remain equal, same sheets same turning blocks, same people doing the job, it will be something about the new winches.
It's normally the lead to the winch being a bit high. Even quite small adjustments cause the problem.

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[vyv_cox]

Mostly I'd agree with that. Additionally, though, technique can come into it. As you put additional turns on it's sometimes easy to flick the sheet on the claw part of the cleat, tipping the last turn over a previous one.

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[Aeolus_IV]

The old winches were quite well used, and hense quite smooth, so the turns used to slide up the winch (combined with the fact that there was a slight taper on the drum). The new winches are basically the same size, but obviously the drum itself is now nice and "grippy" and seems to be parallel over the section which the sheets are wound. I have a couple of thoughts... either: The increased level of grip, combined with our habit of putting three full turns round means that sometimes the sheet simply doesn't ride up the drum. Or the lead into the drum is too shallow - though its the same as it was before. The more I think about this, the more I feel that the increased level of grip is the cause - we'll have to try fewer turns next time we are out. What do you thinK?

Jeff.

Just realised I've re-itterated some points already made - please blame sun and wind burn from yesterday, still not with it today.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Aeolus_IV on 22/04/2003 11:24 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[snowleopard]

changing to a self-tailer could be the problem. maybe you aren't taking the slack out before you put the turn into the self-tailer?

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[Twister_Ken]

Number of turns

A Swan that I used to race was very prone to riders. We found the solution was two turns round the drum when 'hand-over-handing' the sheet on, then add an extra turn and take the sheet into the self-tailer before winching. Bringing the sheet in fast with too many turns around the drum seemed to cause frequent riding turns.

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[Aeolus_IV]

Re: Number of turns

Thank you all for your thoughts, with luck we'll get chance to try a few of them Saturday.

Regards, Jeff.

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[vyv_cox]

Re: Number of turns

That's pretty much what we do too, but we have to use four turns on a beat. Three is OK for a reach but will slip when winding further if the sheet tension increases. The final block before the winch is at deck level, about a foot lower than the winch. I can't remember the last time we had a riding turn.

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[qsiv]

Re: Number of turns

I'd agree - our primaries (Anderson 66) behave just as you say - in fact my reccomendation to crew is to simply put a snubbing turn on until there is load then add a turn or two as required to avoid slip. The problem comes with self tailers preferring to have the barrel well loaded so the feed angle into the ring/stripper is shallow. When you do have a riding turn, that well know German philosopher stipulates that it isnt noticed until the headsail is sheeted home - just when there is no slack worth speaking of left in the system. Modern sails/ropes make the problem worse - we have a kevlar/mylar headsail and dyneema sheets (20 mm) - when the sail is sheeted hard there is no (and I mean NO) slack left in the system. The only solution to the riding turn issue at that point is to drop the car back down the track to generate a little slack in order to free the turn.

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