Restricted vis. - more COLREGs

[PerL]

(My apologies to those of you who do not appreciate these kind of discussions.)

Two weeks ago, we were caught in severe fog in the rather complex Åland archipelago with a large number of small boat channels mixed with some well trafficked ferry routes.

Despite this, a large number of small sailingboats continued sailing - presumably an effect of more people carrying chart plotters in stead of using land references when sailing.

What struck me however was that of all those boats only one ever produced a prescribed sound signal for restricted visibility and that was a sailing boat giving the signal of a motor driven vessel.

The question is, are people generally aware of what the sound signals are? And how many of you will ever give a sound signal in fog? As a follow up question, what does the COLREGS actually say about giving way when two sailingboats meet and one of them signals that it is a motor boat?





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[Nickel]

Could the sailing vessel have been motoring?

<hr width=100% size=1>Nickel

Being paranoid simply means - having all the facts.

 

[PerL]

It wasn't. It was a Dutch yacht appearing out of the mist and they claimed right of way as they got closer (to be precise, they screamed "Read the bloody rulebook!" at my wife as they nearly hit our stern).



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[Nickel]

Ahh, that must have been Dutch for 'Sorry we appear to be making the incorrect sound signals, let me just catch thst spider's web hanging off your pushpit!'

I would certainly make sound signals in fog if I had the remotest inkling that there was anyone else about. On a wide open expanse of water where I thought I was probably alone, I'm not sure I'd bother.

<hr width=100% size=1>Nickel

Being paranoid simply means - having all the facts.

 

[Col]

"On a wide open expanse of water where I thought I was probably alone, I'm not sure I'd bother. "

How do you know you are alone if you can't see?

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[Nickel]

I think if I was on a transocean passage, and hadn't seen another vessel for days, I don't really see me standing in the cockpit, sounding the horn every two minutes!

Until or unless I heard or suspected something to suggest another vessel was in the vicinity.

<hr width=100% size=1>Nickel

Being paranoid simply means - having all the facts.

 

[Mike21]

In restricted visibility where the vessels are not in sight of each other, there are no stand on vessels. All vessels are give way vessels and are obliged to take action where there is a possibility of a closequarter situation developing.

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[powerskipper]

Rule 19 of the international Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea is often Dangerously misunderstood. Simple put, there’s no stand on vessel in Fog


Rule 19 , conduct of a vessel in restricted vistability

[a] This Rule applies to vessels not in sight of one another when navigating in or near an area of restricted visibility.

Every vessel shall proceed at a safe speed adapted to the prevailing circumstances and conditions of restricted visibility. A power driven vessel shall have her engines ready for immediate manoeuvring


[c] Every vessel shall have due regard to the prevailing circumstances and conditions of restricted visibility when complying with the rules of section 1 of this part.

[d] A vessel which detects by radar alone the presence of another vessel shall determine if a close—quarter situation is developing and /or risk of collision exists, If so she shall take avoiding action in ample time, providing that when such action consists of an alteration of course, so far as possible the following shall be avoided:
An alteration of course to port for a vessel forward of the beam, other than a vessel being overtaken;
[ii] An alteration of course towards a vessel abeam or abaft the beam

[e] Except where it has been determined that a risk of collision does exist, every vessel which hears, apparently forward of her beam, the fog signal of another vessel, or which cannot avoid a close –quarter situation with another vessel forward of her beam, shall reduce her speed to the minimum at which she can be kept on her course. She shall if necessary take all way off and in any event navigate with extreme caution until danger of collision is over.


check it out here

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/>http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/
Julie

 

[VicS]

Re: colregs link

You've cocked up the link. Not really complaining but it happens on here quite frequently.

You can spot this sort of thing by clicking on the link while you are previewing the post, assuming you use the preview of course.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>Ne te confundant illegitimi.</font color=purple>

 

[powerskipper]

Re: colregs link

Try now. should work /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/>http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/</A>
Julie

 

[PerL]

So if you have visibility of say, 30 yards then as soon as you come into sight of each other it is the responsibility of each yacht to make sure that no collision can take place even if you are technically within sight of each other at that point?



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[Mike21]

Rule 19 is for vessels that are not in sight of each other and both have the responsibility, once they are within sight of one another then I pressume rule 12 applies. If 30yds is what you would consider as close quarters then both should have taken action beforehand.
But rules also state the stand on vessel also has the responsibility of taking action to prevent a collision if the action of the giveway vessel alone would not prevent one
Personally I would take avoiding action even as the stand on vessel if I felt the give way vessel wasn't taking appropriate action

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[duncan]

or more bluntly - "yes"
the principle is that all vessels should be considered 'equal' and should act first (on sighting or otherwise becoming aware of a danger (notwith standing the specific radar instructions)) rather than spend time trying to work out if they would be/are the stand on vessel.
Taking the example given above the dutch yacht is likely to have become aware of the other craft first, as it would be focused on it's direction of travel, and should have imediately taken action (er not shouting.....) but possibly including a sound signal. The other craft would then have also taken action if required and once happy that no risk of collision existed the vessels would have resumed their course.
Seems straightforward doesn't it!

<hr width=100% size=1>madesco madidum ..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[sjohn_gibson]

I am sure this is going to get some reaction.

Departed Ostend for Harwich last Thursday afternoon - forecast wsw F4/5. Four hours into trip we were in F7 and an hour after that we had pea-soup seafog - just as we had entered the first of 2 shipping lanes.

Forget the sound signals; anything I had on board would not have been heard above the wind and I doubt if any one would have been on deck of another vessel to hear it.

I soon came to the conclusion that my presence on deck was a waste of time - the vis was so low I would not have had time to take any reasonable avoiding action.

I decided to keep warm down below and concentrate on the radar popping up on deck to check about every 10 mins. Nearest vessel closed to 1.5 miles.

Surprisingly, the fog cleared as a cleared the second of the 2 shipping lanes.

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

I think you did absolutely the right thing. The ColRegs oblige you to make proper use of radar equipment which you would'nt have been doing standing on deck peering into the fog. I tend to agree with you regarding sound signals. Anyone in a vessel under power is extremely unlikely to hear sound signals anyway even in a flat calm

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[PerL]

Agree re radar but disagree on not using the horn. Partly because you can actually hear a horn even on a large ferry type thing and also because there might be other boats out who are able to hear you.





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[Deleted User YDKXO]

I didnt say dont use because not to do so would be in contravention of the ColRegs but I can tell you that on a motorboat, whether you're outside on the flybridge or, especially, inside the wheelhouse, the racket from the engine(s) will be too loud to hear all but the most piercing horns


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[PerL]

Hmmm, I think that's why we prefer sailing... ;-)


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[Deleted User YDKXO]

Yes, but we only have to put up with it for 4 hrs going from say Soton to Alderney whereas you lot have to put up with this sailing malarkey for 15hrs or so to do the same journey and most yacht auxiliary engines are just as tiresome as our monster ones.........phut, drone, phut, drone, phut............/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[peterb]

Perhaps I might edit your post just a little?

"Yes, but we have to put up with it for 4 hrs going from say Soton to Alderney whereas you lot can enjoy this sailing malarkey for 15hrs or so to do the same journey."

There, much more realistic now.

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