Reserve Not Met

[Jim@sea]

As I look for a small speedboat/cruiser to keep me boating while I wait for my big Premium Bond win, the current state of the boat market reminds me of what the Motor Trade was like when I was working at a Car Auction in the early 1970's when the Oil Crisis was kicking off. I particularly remember a Rolls Royce dealer putting a load of Silver Shadows into the Auction straight from out of the showroom as their sales had hit a brick wall. Of course the only Rolls Royce's which sold was the one where the TV News was filming and it was a "Contrived Sale" for the cameras. but apart from that they were all "Reserve Not Met"
Which is what I am seeing on E Bay over the last 2 weeks, virtually all the small boats which I have been watching have not been sold. ie., Reserve Not Met. In a few cases no bids at all, but most of the time the highest bid is 40% lower than the reserve.
Of course there are 2 reasons for this,
1/ There are thousands of elderly boats out there with equally elderly engines and in order to kick start the Boat Industry perhaps we should start a "Boat Scrappage Scheme".
2/ The price of fuel, some of these boats have engines which are virtually the same as what was available in the 1970's and use 60 liters an hour. Now thats real money. But in 1972 petrol was 3 galls for £1.
So should I wait for people to realise that prices have dropped, one boat I have my eye on, 11 years old (engine history unknown) has now been re- listed 3 times, the higest bid has been £10,500 but he wont drop below £13500. But at £13,500 if I add another £3000 I can buy (but a bit smaller) a brand new Boat which is 40% off as it has been up for sale as a brand new boat for so long its in danger of being 3 years old without turning a propeller.
Of course we are all after bargains, the house I bought was a "Snatch-Back"
and in these days "Cash-is-King" so my advice to anyone selling a boat at the moment is, drop your price, take the money, they are only going to get cheaper.

 

[Greg2]

I made similar comments on the rising fuel prices thread. Many asking prices are simply not realistic IMHO.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

so my advice to anyone selling a boat at the moment is, drop your price, take the money, they are only going to get cheaper.

Does that also apply to outboards Jim

 

[gjgm]

You are sounding a bit like the typical buyer... my bid is right and asking prices are wrong. Still, you havent bought a boat, so maybe you are not right after all, and cash isnt king- the current owner is !
If he wont sell his boat for less than £13.5k, then thats what you will have to pay for it. Maybe he doesnt sell it;maybe you dont buy it. But thats the price, and someone else may be quite happy to pay that- we dont yet know.

 

[chi-girl]

ive been on the phone this morning looking for a 15-20hp 4stroke on remotes and all the prices are quoting list plus extra for cable and extra for fitting. 15hp coming in at £2500. most dont want to haggle so i wont buy unless i can get for £2200.

 

[enterprise]

I think the reason (from experience) the reserve is not met on ebay is to stop the vendor having to pay the extortionate final valuation fees.

It's good for exposure, if it generates some enquiries then it's done it's job without the vendor having to pay the fee's, hence high reserve, no intention of selling, just advertising the fact that the boats for sale.

 

[lovezoo]

I think the reason (from experience) the reserve is not met on ebay is to stop the vendor having to pay the extortionate final valuation fees.

It's good for exposure, if it generates some enquiries then it's done it's job without the vendor having to pay the fee's, hence high reserve, no intention of selling, just advertising the fact that the boats for sale.

I thought the fee was capped at IIRC £35? Not exactly extortionate on a £13,000 boat if you get a sale out of it.

I think it is more likely bids don't get anywhere near the reserve is because of all the dreamers on ebay, bidding for something they can't afford, and hoping the price doesn't go above £500 as that is all they have got.

 

[westernman]

ive been on the phone this morning looking for a 15-20hp 4stroke on remotes and all the prices are quoting list plus extra for cable and extra for fitting. 15hp coming in at £2500. most dont want to haggle so i wont buy unless i can get for £2200.

Have you tried calling http://www.outboards-direct.co.uk ?

A got a very good price for a small Yamaha. Complete with nice bag for about 1/3 of the new price down here.

You might be pleasantly surprised. No connection, but just a happy customer who reckoned he got a very good deal.

 

[cadser]

Well firstly we are all looking for a bargin that runs on thin air rather than £1.00 per mile.

I think one of the problems is (seeing as most of the boats of this type come from the USA) that the yanks have had cheaper fuel for years and so the development of cheaper to run engines has never been looked into or developed properly.

I recently sold my sports boat to swap to a larger boat with an bit more sea worthyness, if you like! The boat i was intending buying had been lurking in the back of the boat yard we use and had never moved for two years. So i think i can get it cheap?

When it was finally put up for sale, i nearly had a coronary, £40K. Now thats a bit out of my reach. Just goes to show don't it

 

[Morpheous]

If its been sat around for a while its always worth making an offer, the owner may need to shift it fast, if not you have still registered your interest if he drops later.

 

[vas]

If its been sat around for a while its always worth making an offer, the owner may need to shift it fast, if not you have still registered your interest if he drops later.

Seems that all markets are similar in this respect...
In Greece, in more than a few occasions, after viewing a craft that wasn't at all what the seller was advertising it to be, I'd politely explain why it's highly unlikely it's going to be sold at the advertised price only to get the typical answer: "I'd rather see it rot than sell it at this price"
Being following them and their adverts and indeed that's what's going to happen

In one case the one engine had a suspected head gasket problem (overheating) and the owner had installed two home air-con units + a small petrol portable gen. Stuck the external units of the aircons in the hatches behind the engine by the transom and claimed that they performed beautifully

V.

 

[gjgm]

That is your advice... as a buyer.
If I think my £20 note is worth £20 why am going to sell it to you for 15?
I cant comment on the true value of this particular boat, but reality is, someone else owns it, and he wants £13.5k for it. He might be right,he might be wrong. Just bcz you dont want to pay that doesnt mean that is not the value of the boat.
Sorry, step up, or move on Jim. Note- you still dont have a boat, so something is amiss in your assessment of the market...?
You can have a boat tomorrow..but somehow, you dont.....

 

[pappaecho]

if the reserve prices are not being met, then the logic is simple. The buyers are not prepared to pay a higher price which means that the sellers asking price is too high

 

[gjgm]

if the reserve prices are not being met, then the logic is simple. The buyers are not prepared to pay a higher price which means that the sellers asking price is too high

It might also mean that the prospective buyers SO FAR are unrealistic as to the value of the boats.
You can say that there are lots of boats for sale,I want to buy one, but they are all too expensive. Or you could say, I cant afford what they cost. Buyers always seem to think the first. I merely suggest there is an alternative explanation.

 

[303hound]

I tend to disagree slightly, there are a lot overpriced boats out there but good clean stuff is selling well.

18 to 20 foot speed boats are selling well but mainly out of the country, the laws of supply and demand will eventually kick in and prices for these boats will firm up.

not everyone is desperate to sell their boat.

 

[Tranona]

It might also mean that the prospective buyers SO FAR are unrealistic as to the value of the boats.
You can say that there are lots of boats for sale,I want to buy one, but they are all too expensive. Or you could say, I cant afford what they cost. Buyers always seem to think the first. I merely suggest there is an alternative explanation.

I agree. There always seems to ba an assumption that the seller is desparate to sell and will take whatever is offered. This is just not the case - it is the deprival value to the seller that sets his expectations. Would he rather have the boat than £XXX. His deprival value may be higher than the potential buyer is prepared to pay so the negotiations start. If they fail to establish an agreed price that should not be taken as a criticism of the seller - just a fact of life.

Of course a seller may change his expectations if he repeatedly fails to find a buyer and it might come to the point where he would rather have the lower amount of money - but by then might have to find a new buyer.

 

[stownsend]

I've advertised mine on ebay (not the reduced price) had a few enquiries but very silly offers, one offer i thought they missed a '0' off ! I dropped her by £500 to £4995 and have had many more interest though other sites. As for pricing I've priced her below as what I think she is worth based on other boats but around a valuation by Fairline Southampton via the Right Boat valuation service, accepting she has a 2.5 lt Volvo Penta petrol engine. Boatshed have a couple Invaders on their system for £8500 and £10,000 both with diesel's. I think they are over priced but at the end of the day someone will pay what they think is right for a boat...

Cheers

Stu

 

[Assassin]

Purely my own observations of Ebay:

There are many sellers of anything who are chancers, buying in things to sell purely for profit, then there are some genuine sellers.

Chancers often buy items and bodge or cobble them together and try to exploit the seasonal demand for specific items, boats being just one seasonal item, they then price them at the highest levels they can. This is often at the prices the quality items would sell for, and not at a price which reflects their real value; meanwhile the genuine seller suffers as these bodged items detract from their genuine sales.

Recently looked at a boat for a mate, Ebay seller, lived on a council estate, front garden full of scrap and broken and part broken vehicles and oil everywhere, numerous children running around the property in various states of undress. This put me on my guard immediately.

Upon looking at the boat i noticed it had been repainted, and noticed two tins of paint, one gloss white and one red, funnily they were the same colour as the boat and were cheap household gloss. Not the sort of thing you would paint a boat with, well, not unless you were trying to hide something. The seller knew nothing of boating, had no vehicle with a tow bar on, and none of the associated boating equipment one would expect. Basically he was a chancer and nothing more, i did not even look at the engine as i could see numerous wires hanging out.

This was a classic case of an Ebay chancer bodging something together purely for profit.

On the other side of the coin we looked at another boat the same day, nice clean property, 4X4 with tow bar for towing the boat, knowledgeable, and willing to let us take the boat out for a spin to test her fully. Genuine reason for selling, and the few tiny faults were pointed out to us, a deal was struck.

The irony is that both boats had the same reserve on Ebay.

 

[ian38_39]

Most sellers are unrealistic in the prices they ask and most buyers are unrealistic in the price they are willing to pay.

A top line middle range boat may well have had £20-£30k or even more spent on it in a 5 year ownership over that of a boat that has just been kept going. When you buy a top line boat you buy it in the knowledge that you are going to lose money when you sell, you either keep it top line and pay whatever it costs, or allow it to age slightly and take the hit, which is likely to be less than you would have spent keeping it top line.

The grey area is the seller that wants top line without having spent and the buyer that wants top line at the price of the shed that has just been unloaded at a marina near you.

The irony is that those asking far too much generally end up selling for less than it is worth, on the basis that there just aren't any buyers out there.

 

[mateyboy]

It might also mean that the prospective buyers SO FAR are unrealistic as to the value of the boats.
You can say that there are lots of boats for sale,I want to buy one, but they are all too expensive. Or you could say, I cant afford what they cost. Buyers always seem to think the first. I merely suggest there is an alternative explanation.

I am the first type of buyer. The boats I want I can't afford. What I can afford I don't really want, and if i'm having a boat I want my heart in it.
Result= still no boat and the way the prices aren't dropping it looks like staying that way for another season.
I'll stick to renting for the foreseeable future until something happens.

This reminds me of a thread I started ages ago:
'What happens to all the unsold boats?'
Answer: They're all left rotting away 'cos the owner won't sell it for 500 quid less than what he thinks he can get for it.