Report finds almost half of man-overboard cases result in death

[fredrussell]

Think you may have missed the demonstration video. It completely releases the carabiner unopened,

You are right, sorry- hadn’t watched the demo.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I missed the point AP, the whole hook/karabiner detaches from tether. But to address your point, karabiners are generally designed so that you can’t remove or unclip them whilst they’re under load, even with the gate open.

But my safety lines don't use karabiners; they use a rather complex system where the gate is held shut by a stay that has to be moved to allow the gate to open. But there is no pressure on the stay, and once the stay is moved, none on the gate either. This kind of thing:

 

[Wansworth]

Ona coaster I worked on it took all day to free up the hoist to launch the lifeboat once in the water it leaked mucho.Would launching the inflatable dinghy be another alternative to getting the victims back,assuming there were more than two crew?

 

[capnsensible]

Ona coaster I worked on it took all day to free up the hoist to launch the lifeboat once in the water it leaked mucho.Would launching the inflatable dinghy be another alternative to getting the victims back,assuming there were more than two crew?

I've often discussed the usefulness of the liferaft as a 'stepping stone' for getting a casualty back on board. Especially when Mrs S and myself tootled across to the Caribbean.

The thing we did practice with was an easily rigged block and tackle rigged on a special fitting on our wind generator pole plus a helicopter rescue strop. But very much an individual thing.

 

[mattonthesea]

This video and trial is the reason I asked the question.

Most felt the tether should be on the front where this video clearly showed the at the back is better to prevent being dragged underwater by the motion of the boat unless very show.

One poster said it must be at the front to allow disconnection yet it is under tension and therefore not easy to disconnect with cold hands The lady who ditched the LJ to disconnect herself from the tether demonstrates this fact.

Clearly there is a wide range of opinions and newer sailors need some guidance based on facts and no just opinion.

I have tried to make by boat as safe a possible but even out safety authority don't understand the ungues safety issues of small sailing boats as the minimum life line height is at just the correct height to tip some one over due to a sudden boat movement

White water kayakers have known all about this for years. The attachment ring is at the back so you don't have the river forced down your mouth. If you need to break free then you pull a toggle; the ring detaches. But kayakers use buoyancy aids rather than LJs

 

[rogerthebodger]

White water kayakers have known all about this for years. The attachment ring is at the back so you don't have the river forced down your mouth. If you need to break free then you pull a toggle; the ring detaches. But kayakers use buoyancy aids rather than LJs

Would it be possible to fit on one of the quick release toggles to a yachting life Jacket.

Do you any links to the quick release toggles you refer to or any pictures

 

[fredrussell]

But my safety lines don't use karabiners; they use a rather complex system where the gate is held shut by a stay that has to be moved to allow the gate to open. But there is no pressure on the stay, and once the stay is moved, none on the gate either. This kind of thing: View attachment 159603

I’ve forgotten the point I was trying to make! I think it was that under load, you won’t be able to release those (or any other) karabiners from whatever they (and you) are hanging from in the same way you release your dogs from their leads. The arc of a circle thing you mentioned.

 

[Daverw]

White water kayakers have known all about this for years. The attachment ring is at the back so you don't have the river forced down your mouth. If you need to break free then you pull a toggle; the ring detaches. But kayakers use buoyancy aids rather than LJs

I was just about to say the same, fully attached until you pull the release cord and the attachment point comes away with the carabiner

 

[RunAgroundHard]

The concept of stopping the boat if a person falls overboard and remains attached, must be difficult to grasp if the only solution is to fit a back connected harness.

 

[GunfleetSand]

Couple of thoughts. one is that at work we use a fall arrest system like a retracting dog lead only it’s steel cable so if you suddenly move like a car seat belt it locks up. bit left field but one of those from overhead coupled with something from the deck if go towards the drink you swing out but are tethered from above not just from deck could even add a remote electric winch to that - self haul

Could a remote detonation device be designed to quick release blocks/winches to de-power boat. These are just odd impractical ideas but we are talking about situations several rungs down the hierarchy of hazard control, with hive mind and better tech there must be something better than just a harness

 

[Never Grumble]

Haven't read all of this, were there any stats on whether a lifejacket had been worn (or not) by those who sadly died?

 

[Adios]

Haven't read all of this, were there any stats on whether a lifejacket had been worn (or not) by those who sadly died?

I imagine everyone that wears a harness is wearing a LJ at that point but its useless. The problem is you're being pulled from the front on your face into the water as you're dragged along. On the one hand you can possibly cut yourself out if its attached at the front, if it was attached at the back you can't reach it but at least less likely to drown. Theres no go way to be towed on a tether.

 

[Daverw]

Couple of thoughts. one is that at work we use a fall arrest system like a retracting dog lead only it’s steel cable so if you suddenly move like a car seat belt it locks up. bit left field but one of those from overhead coupled with something from the deck if go towards the drink you swing out but are tethered from above not just from deck could even add a remote electric winch to that - self haul

Could a remote detonation device be designed to quick release blocks/winches to de-power boat. These are just odd impractical ideas but we are talking about situations several rungs down the hierarchy of hazard control, with hive mind and better tech there must be something better than just a harness

not Sure how you would depower a sailing boat with such a system with lines locked off etc

 

[Chiara’s slave]

not Sure how you would depower a sailing boat with such a system with lines locked off etc

Multihulls have had mainsheet dumping systems for a long time. Of course they only work going upwind. If the boom is against the shrouds, you’re in trouble, like Coco de Mer.

 

[Never Grumble]

I imagine everyone that wears a harness is wearing a LJ at that point but its useless. The problem is you're being pulled from the front on your face into the water as you're dragged along. On the one hand you can possibly cut yourself out if its attached at the front, if it was attached at the back you can't reach it but at least less likely to drown. Theres no go way to be towed on a tether.

Dont doubt that but it as far as I read it didn't give any meaningful stats to establish what is safest. i.e. how many were dragged along on tethers, how many were wearing lifejackets, how many weren't wearing lifejackets, etc, etc. I spent four hours looking for a man overboard once, as far as I remember he went over the side not wearing any lifejacket, always wondered if the outcome might have been different if he had?

 

[Adios]

Dont doubt that but it as far as I read it didn't give any meaningful stats to establish what is safest. i.e. how many were dragged along on tethers, how many were wearing lifejackets, how many weren't wearing lifejackets, etc, etc. I spent four hours looking for a man overboard once, as far as I remember he went over the side not wearing any lifejacket, always wondered if the outcome might have been different if he had?

There seem to have been a few cases of deaths while being towed by tether. No stats on how many had an uneventful towing. I would say its safe to assume everyone towed on a tether whether drowned or not was wearing a LJ as that's the most common attachment point. The safety message is wear a life jacket and ONLY wear a tether if it actually stops you going over. The more I've looked into this the more resistant I will be to wearing a tether on parts of the boat if poorly set up, which is all boats I've been on other than cockpit tethers.

 

[Ado]

Not followed the complete thread but the issue of being towed in a standart lifejacket resulted in my race crew all buying Back Tow lifejacket to improve the chances of survival. I dont see them promoted for sale now, are they still in business?

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Not followed the complete thread but the issue of being towed in a standart lifejacket resulted in my race crew all buying Back Tow lifejacket to improve the chances of survival. I dont see them promoted for sale now, are they still in business?

I think they are not made anymore, at least the original developer. Read that on here.

 

[Ado]

That's a pity, they look well made but we have not tested, them thank goodness