Report finds almost half of man-overboard cases result in death

[capnsensible]

Can you give some pointers…

Sure. Spent years coaching this, done thousands!

Key thing for me is stopping whatever boat as quickly as possible and getting back to mob. Pass them something that floats. Make mayday call. This can be done whilst doing next bit.

Reposition boat. Motor boats upwind, beam to wind. Boat gets blown down for easy pick up.

Yachts, downwind. Furl headsail, centre main. Motor back up to casualty. Pick them up alongside cockpit.

If yacht Motor fails, beamy reach off, tack, close reach back. Again pick up by cockpit.

There are shedloads of finesse tips to go with all that but that's where practice comes in with different crew, wind, seastate, yadda yadda.

Whatever the crew and whatever the boat, after 3 or 4 times they get it. After 8 or 9 they are good and you can start throwing in some 'what ifs' to stretch the learning. Practice!

 

[ylop]

In the recreational sector, with the data indicating that almost half (47 per cent) of man-overboard occurrences that were reported to the MAIB from pleasure craft resulted in a fatality. " Report finds almost half of man-overboard cases result in death - Marine Industry News

I don't want to criticise the message the statistics are trying to present:
- don't fall overboard
- get back to them quickly if they do (but probably call for help anyway)
- have a plan for getting them back on board

BUT the stats are seriously flawed. The numerator will almost always be reported to the MAIB, but the denominator I am sure is not in many cases. Of the 12 MOBs in the RTI last weekend how many will be reported to the MAIB? I'm not sure if any needed external assistance.

Does the report specify why crew fall overboard,I imagine the furling jib from the cockpit has saved many lives

I couldn't find the actual report - only a press release. I don't think they have that much data to go on. Furling jib's/genoas might well help but do they make us less used to working on the foredeck so when something snags and we need to go forward we are less skilled/prepared? or does it tempt shorter-handed sailing so if someone does go overboard there's fewer crew remaining to help a rescue? I suspect even if the stats existed it would be so hard to unpick differences like increasing wearing of life jackets, design of boats, type of sailing people do (cruise v race), ability of VHF, DSC, PLB to get help etc that it would be very hard to identify if any benefit or disadvantage was real. FWIW I've always perceived and been led to believe (although I've never seen any stats) that the most likely place for people to fall in was on their mooring/anchor, especially getting in/out of the dinghy. On your own that might well be fatal. With help at hand you'd hope it was much less likely to be.

People seem so reluctant to spend 20 minutes or so investing in regular practice when it's so valuable for all sorts of reasons. In my opinion!

I genuinely think a lot of people don't realise (1) how physically difficult it is to get a wet person out the sea; (2) how difficult it is for even a conscious person to help themselves when in a full inflated L/J.

 

[Juan Twothree]

As soon as someone inadvertently goes over the side, put out a Mayday, or press your DSC button, so that help will be on its way.

If you wait till you've spent 10 or 15 minutes trying to recover them, they'll be getting cold and unresponsive, and you'll have added that much delay for help getting to you.

If you get them back aboard, and they don't need medical attention, then just cancel the Mayday, and the lifeboat can be stood down.

We often get stood down before the lifeboat is even in the water.

We don't mind.

 

[rogerthebodger]

As an old tosser and one who used to scuba dive I know from first hand how difficute it i to even get back on a RIB let alone the deck of a sailing boat

I have a telescopic ladder rigged at mid point of deck. Anyone in the water can release the ladder from the water and it extends to below the waterline

I sail in warmer water than the UK and have been n several times only in the marina but I still need help to get back onto the water level jetty.

 

[mainsail1]

"Analysis conducted by the Marine Accident Investigation Branch (MAIB) has revealed the challenges faced by crew when tasked with recovering a crewmate who has fallen overboard.

The report finds that crew have, on average, under 11 minutes to recover a crewmate who has fallen overboard into cold water before the victim becomes unresponsive.

In the recreational sector, with the data indicating that almost half (47 per cent) of man-overboard occurrences that were reported to the MAIB from pleasure craft resulted in a fatality. " Report finds almost half of man-overboard cases result in death - Marine Industry News

So the solution must be to remain on your boat. As I sail singlehanded, I always wear a lifejacket with a PLB to give me at least a chance of recovery (or locating my remains).

Edit: See also Nearly half die when falling overboard >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News

Yes, but I think you will find most of these poor people fall off large ships. From my experience I would say that the number of people that fall off yachts in UK waters and die is very small indeed. By the way, I have practised man overboard drills with my crews for 50 years and never had a real "man overboard" so let's get this in perspective please.

 

[Juan Twothree]

One sad case I had to deal with was a call to investigate a yacht which had been anchored in the same place for a couple of days.

When we got there, we found the owner dead in the water, attached by his safety harness.

The bruises on his legs suggested that he had made considerable and prolonged efforts to reboard.

Due to where he was anchored, many yachts would have passed very close to him over the previous two days, without realising that anything was wrong.

 

[Supertramp]

Sobering reading. And not really a surprise.

When I bought my boat I knew I would sail a lot singlehanded, and that I am growing less agile. So I wanted a steady boat with safe decks, amongst other things. I have 6 to 12 inch bulwarks surmounted by standard rails and lifelines, little camber to deck or cabin, flared bow deflecting water away and plenty of handholds, rigging and tether points.
But rigging the pole or the Solent jib still feels high risk. I do tether but sometimes it really can get in the way. I often prepare and leave the pole rigged when I am expecting to use it. I always wear lifejacket and PLB.

Contrast this with the boat I race on which has a narrow, cambered foredeck, decidedly wet in big seas and has a 3cm toerail. Because we are racing (inshore) we don't worry as we expect a rapid and competent response to MOB.
I have different behaviours associated with crewed racing vs singlehanded passage making. I increasingly feel my cautious, singlehanded passage making has the right approach and is forming habits and practices that I follow on my own boat regardless of weather or conditions.

Falling over when at anchor (when I don't wear a life jacket) is another matter (and quite foreseeable) but I can see that a boarding ladder could be more useful than a tether if alone.

Agree with several other posts here that thinking and talking about it in advance, retraining the crew and always following your safe practices are useful.

 

[capnsensible]

Is the boat you race on a Sigma 33?

 

[dunedin]

Yes, but I think you will find most of these poor people fall off large ships. From my experience I would say that the number of people that fall off yachts in UK waters and die is very small indeed. By the way, I have practised man overboard drills with my crews for 50 years and never had a real "man overboard" so let's get this in perspective please.

Well sadly there were two unrelated MOB deaths in the Channel on the same May weekend this year. Both off race boats, but in different races. Not sure if either were using lifejacket or harness. Each year there are sadly a few, though too many seem to involve tenders.

 

[Supertramp]

Is the boat you race on a Sigma 33?

Yes, great boat to race and I'm much more likely to fall off it than mine!

 

[Stemar]

Years ago, someone here described his briefing to crew, "This is a lifeline, it will keep you on board. This is a lifejacket, it will help the lifeboat retrieve your body if you do go overboard."

I've never forgotten it. On our boat on the RtI, I was the only one to clip on, in spite of quoting that at them.

 

[capnsensible]

Yes, great boat to race and I'm much more likely to fall off it than mine!

I sail on one where I am quite often. I've shown the couple who own her how to do mob stuff quite a bit. These boats are so responsive and great to sail. One of my favourites!!

 

[capnsensible]

 

[Daedelus]

I found the attached covered some of the the points that could be made. Try this lot for size:

The issues:-
MOB RESPONSE IN COLD WATER
FINDING THEM
ATTACHING THEM
GETTING THEM BACK ABOARD
AFTERCARE

Response in Cold water:-
Involuntary responses, peak in 30seconds, last for 2-3 minutes
Breathing tends to hyperventilation
Which causes dizziness & confusion
If water <15°C initial gasp can lead to inhalation of water & near drowning
Ability to hold breath <10seconds
Choppy water increases risk of inhalation
Constricting surface blood vessels lead to increased blood pressure, risk of heart attack or stroke

What can you do beforehand:-
Immediate psychological impact - fear
The following responses can be experienced in water UP to 25C, shock is up to 15C
Likely to gasp for air then breathe rapidly: so spray hood to protect airway
Heart will be working harder, so don’t try to swim at first. Relax until you feel responses stabilising
Effects at worst for first 30 seconds, but will go after 3 minutes

Finding them
Stop/slow boat quickly (ie time taken to do so)
Immediate Mayday
If observed, one crew member points
Unobserved: PLB, Light, AIS.
Needles in haystacks otherwise

Recovery (based on an exercise I attended using people in wetsuits as MOBs)
Attaching them would have been a nightmare if unable to help themselves, a hook of some description to avoid tying a knot is almost essential
Using back stay purchase - it worked but in anything other than dead calm the rescuer would have been in the water too, also likely the stern rising and falling would have smashed the skull of the MOB.

Using boom & mainsheet or line and blocks on end of boom
Mainsheet Ready fitted
Reasonable mechanical advantage
Most commonly thought of method
Mainsheet not on end of boom in all cases
LINE
Easy to fit On a “gantry”
Drawbacks
a preventer was needed for mainsheet or purchase as otherwise the MOB was banged into the hull as the boom tried to centre
Also being lifted via harness or LJ hurt!
Finally the mainsheet or purchase didn't lift high enough in standard form to lift over guardrails.
Winch was just enough power to lift with reduction on main or purchase.

Aftercare
Impacts:
Reduction in gravity when in water
Increase in hydrostatic pressure
Central core blood volume increased
Raised blood pressure
Vertical exit from water =
Reduced hydrostatic pressure
Sudden drop in blood pressure.
Heart attack/collapse
Recover Horizontally or head slightly down

Possible later risks
Collapse
Hypothermia
Secondary drowning - if possible get them to hospital fast.
Psychological effects



For the real thing look at the following instances: Lion a reflex 38 where the skipper was tethered but went overboard and died, and also one who was recovered: Arthur Bowers on "Hull and Humber" during the Clipper RTW yacht race. It took a highly trained crew 17 minutes to get him back. First should be on MAIB reports and the second is a youtube clip of a BBC interview.

In summary then:
Spotting them at night and no light – no chance.
Attaching them:
Unconscious, not a prayer
Conscious – with luck
Getting them back:
May damage or injure
Methods are fine in calm conditions
Set it up – now
ALWAYS: life jackets and or lines
Aftercare - a hospital soon is idealfor secondary drowning risk failing that try prayer.

A question for the husband and wife crews - specifically for the female partners:
It’s not the small female that’s over the side – it’s the bigger, stronger, heavier male.
Things you need to consider:-
1) Is he the only one who can sail the boat?
2) His life insurance has lapsed?
3) Do you really care?
If the answers are 1) yes, 2) yes and 3) yes. The urgently consider how you both remain ON the boat and not trailed alongside it or somewhere in the water watching your past life flash in front of your eyes.

 

[capnsensible]

Most yachts carry some way of cutting shrouds if dismasted. It works on guardwires too. Lot less lifting.

 

[ylop]

Yes, but I think you will find most of these poor people fall off large ships.

A quick skim of the MAIB reports suggests the biggest area of concern is probably fishing boats. I don't think large numbers of people are falling off large ships. On passenger services, some may jump or end up overboard as a consequence of drink but I don't recall many crew falling off big ships in the UK?

From my experience I would say that the number of people that fall off yachts in UK waters and die is very small indeed.

Its definitely not zero though.

By the way, I have practised man overboard drills with my crews for 50 years and never had a real "man overboard" so let's get this in perspective please.

Does that make it more or less likely that you need to put it into practice tomorrow? I've not executed a real-life MOB for probably nearly 30 years, and that was someone doing something stupid in benign conditions, but the type of boating I do now means its probably more likely now than 10 years ago. I have however ended up in the drink myself in that time getting off a small rib onto a harbour ladder. Mostly the walk of shame past everyone with my fully inflated lifejacket was enough to teach me a lesson - alone on a dark night with different clothes on it could have been a very different prospect.

 

[Supertramp]

From a safety management perspective I would want to reduce the hazards and risk activities that can lead to a MOB. Safety equipment is often seen as a bolt on solution when the root causes are to do with boat design, layout of equipment and how the boat is used. Hard to investigate after the event and all the safety gear increases the chance of survival. Appreciate that is obvious, but trying to get people back out the water alive is a bit like wondering if the airbags worked or if he survived the fall of the ladder. People are very good at working around hazards and risks but every so often someone gets caught out. Neeves in #10 had it right - don't fall in.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

From a safety management perspective I would want to reduce the hazards and risk activities that can lead to a MOB. Safety equipment is often seen as a bolt on solution when the root causes are to do with boat design, layout of equipment and how the boat is used. Hard to investigate after the event and all the safety gear increases the chance of survival. Appreciate that is obvious, but trying to get people back out the water alive is a bit like wondering if the airbags worked or if he survived the fall of the ladder. People are very good at working around hazards and risks but every so often someone gets caught out. Neeves in #10 had it right - don't fall in.

And I am in the process of ensuring that all essential sail-handling tasks can be done without leaving the cockpit.

 

[Supertramp]

And I am in the process of ensuring that all essential sail-handling tasks can be done without leaving the cockpit.

And that has to be the right approach while remaining able to safely go and sort the unexpected and infrequent event such as a sheet catching. I find the unplanned snag seems to happen in winds and waves beyond my normal operating conditions. Also some cockpits are a great deal safer than others.

 

[bluerm166]

Surely this should bring to the fore arrangements that will prevent you falling over in the first place as per arrangements on roofs..I am currently considering how to get central jackstays ,even if you have to transfer from one section to another.So over the cabin top and then forward of the mast .And either using a short tether or doubling up a standard tether.