Replacing Turnbuckles with Lanyards

[DownWest]

A proper wooden boat guy would make his own, esp at £51 and up...!

BTW welcome back!

 

[Minerva]

How heavy / what size is your boat? I’d be concerned about what your insurance co say, in particular the 3rd party damages part if the mast comes down on your crew’s head and it’s deemed you bodged the rigging?

Can’t say I’m a fan of bodges on safety critical elements. On a drascombe it might be ok. On a heavy Bruce Robert’s, probably dodgy

 

[ducked]

How heavy / what size is your boat? I’d be concerned about what your insurance co say, in particular the 3rd party damages part if the mast comes down on your crew’s head and it’s deemed you bodged the rigging?

Can’t say I’m a fan of bodges on safety critical elements. On a drascombe it might be ok. On a heavy Bruce Robert’s, probably dodgy

Trident 24.

I have heard of this "Insurance" of which you speak, but have no experience of it yet in a marine context, nor do I have a crew.

I do, however, have extensive experience of "bodges"in several contexts (especially automotive). Generally the term describes something done in a different way to how the user of the term does or would do it, and doesnt necessarily have any actual negative safety implications, especially if the bodge has been successfully in use for hundreds of years with far inferior materials.

 

[ducked]

Many traditional boats of the broads use lanyards . Right from the days of linen / hemp/ cotton bits of string
View attachment 193930
As this Broads yacht shows.

.
Many now use polyester, I use 2mm dyneema on my little boat, which reminds me, one needs replacement, as it's now fraying a bit.

Think they drop masts a lot (deliberately) which might indicate lanyards

 

[ducked]

Force 4 seem to be completely out of deadeyes.
There are a few available on the market but they seem to be only 5mm in diameter, probably a labelling error.

I'd guess the 5mm is the lanyard diameter. As noted, the (apparently incomplete) lanyard specification table I link to above tops out at 5mm

 

[[194497]]

How heavy / what size is your boat? I’d be concerned about what your insurance co say, in particular the 3rd party damages part if the mast comes down on your crew’s head and it’s deemed you bodged the rigging?

Can’t say I’m a fan of bodges on safety critical elements. On a drascombe it might be ok. On a heavy Bruce Robert’s, probably dodgy

Lanyards have got the potential at least to be a lot stronger than the wire they're on the end of. The main thing will probably be to get smooth, well-radiussed turns by using appropriate deadeyes.

 

[ducked]

Less than polyester. That is why it’s the choice for standing rigging, for those that don’t do wire.

When Should We Retire Dyneema Stays and Running Rigging? - Practical Sailor

Seems to disagree. They say it can suffer worse UV degradation and chafe than polyester, and even its commercial advocates like Colligo dont recommend a shroud life of more than 10 years, the same as the usual rule of thumb for stainless and probably less than galvanized,

Based on that, it only seems appropriate for special applications, (such as lanyards, perhaps) and of course racing

 

[seeSimon]

Swallow Yachts range of UK built modern-classic "performance orientated" trailer sailer use lanyards/lashings on the shrouds of their carbon fibre masts on the boats up to 23ft. Shrouds are available in either stainless of dyneema type materials.

The 23 ft with "performance pack" has swept spreaders on it's carbon mast. No back stay...like a big dinghy.

Their 26ftr uses conventional bottlescrews/turnbuckles, AFAIK...

These boats are designed and built by a highly qualified UK Engineer, he's sold many (over at least 15 years) and as far as I'm aware there's not been an issue with masts falling down.

"Soft" shrouds offer many advantages for boats that are regularly derigged for trailering. I think these are an additional cost option on new boats?

There is an excellent, and very active owners forum.

 

[The Q]

Think they drop masts a lot (deliberately) which might indicate lanyards

just a bit.

This years race starts tomorrow 31 May 2025 at 11:00am UK time.
The bridge they are going through has 6ft air draft

 

[DownWest]

.

"Soft" shrouds offer many advantages for boats that are regularly derigged for trailering. I think these are an additional cost option on new boats?

When local friend was rigging his new boat, he went to the chandelry for the SS wire and bits so I could swage them up. The bloke there suggested Dyneems as erasier and cheaper, even supplied the needles to splice the eyes. It certainly is easier for his trail sail 20ft. gaffer

 

[Caraway]

I thought of using a bit of PVC tubing for UV protection. Should allow easier inspection, and sheets should slide freely on it.

I found that PVC tube is hardened by UV and cracks over bow rollers or fairleads. The sharp edges cut the mooring strop. I had an issue and several owners on a small mooring site had similar problems, despite being warned.

This refers to mooring lines of course, but the same difficulty arises in that inspection behind the cloudy/opaque PVC tube makes it less likely you would spot an issue.

These shots taken on one tour around the moorings. And this was on a lake. Even when they go walkabout, they can't go far.
The bottom two show that the strop has been cut and fallen out of the tube.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

When Should We Retire Dyneema Stays and Running Rigging? - Practical Sailor

Seems to disagree. They say it can suffer worse UV degradation and chafe than polyester, and even its commercial advocates like Colligo dont recommend a shroud life of more than 10 years, the same as the usual rule of thumb for stainless and probably less than galvanized,

Based on that, it only seems appropriate for special applications, (such as lanyards, perhaps) and of course racing

I said it lasted better than polyester perfectly clearly. That’s what you quoted. Then you base the rest of your post on comparing it to wire. How odd. And BTW most insurers don’t love you much if your wire rigging is over 10 years old.

 

[alahol2]

I found that PVC tube is hardened by UV and cracks over bow rollers or fairleads. The sharp edges cut the mooring strop. I had an issue and several owners on a small mooring site had similar problems, despite being warned.

I suspect he is talking of using rigid PVC tube to cover the lanyards, not mooring strops.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I suspect he is talking of using rigid PVC tube to cover the lanyards, not mooring strops.

Hopefully not much flexing there. We have PVC tubes over the moorings at our club. They are replaced every year.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

How heavy / what size is your boat? I’d be concerned about what your insurance co say, in particular the 3rd party damages part if the mast comes down on your crew’s head and it’s deemed you bodged the rigging?

Can’t say I’m a fan of bodges on safety critical elements. On a drascombe it might be ok. On a heavy Bruce Robert’s, probably dodgy

Lanyards were good enough for HMS Victory, so I think an insurance company would struggle to assert that they were a bodge!

 

[alahol2]

...We have PVC tubes over the moorings at our club. They are replaced every year.

I use polyester octoplait for my mooring strops. Maybe I'm lucky with my boats and bow rollers/fairleads but I have never had to use tubing nor chafe protection. The strops stay in very good condition year after year. The current set are 10 years old and look like they'll last another 10.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I use polyester octoplait for my mooring strops. Maybe I'm lucky with my boats and bow rollers/fairleads but I have never had to use tubing nor chafe protection. The strops stay in very good condition year after year. The current set are 10 years old and look like they'll last another 10.

The club maintain our moorings in their time honoured way. Your way might be better, I may never know

 

[ducked]

I said it lasted better than polyester perfectly clearly. That’s what you quoted. Then you base the rest of your post on comparing it to wire. How odd. And BTW most insurers don’t love you much if your wire rigging is over 10 years old.

This doesnt seem to be a response to the material (Practical Sailor article) quoted, which says it is no better than polyester, also "perfectly clearly". How odd.

"the UV resistance of Dyneema is far better than nylon, but it is not any better than polyester lines of the same strength. The same goes for chafe."

Perfectly cleary, someone involved in this difference of opinion is likely to be wrong, at least some of the time, and that might be long enough for someones mast to fall down. This seems a good enough reason, to me, for caution wrt dyneema standing rigging lifetime. According to that article, In some running rigging applications it is apparently significantly worse.

For lanyards, however, it might be appropriate, because it can probably be protected there

"It’s a great choice for multipart cascade tackles using low friction rings in vangs, bobstays, and outhauls where there is very little chafe"

This seems an analagous application to lanyard turnbuckle replacement, though whether the advantages counterbalance the cost and the greater difficulty of securing it I'm unsure of at present.

I won't be doing racing, and if I was I would probably want to feign indifference to the results, and a full set of dyneema standing rigging would seriously undermine that pose.

 

[ducked]

I found that PVC tube is hardened by UV and cracks over bow rollers or fairleads. The sharp edges cut the mooring strop. I had an issue and several owners on a small mooring site had similar problems, despite being warned.

This refers to mooring lines of course, but the same difficulty arises in that inspection behind the cloudy/opaque PVC tube makes it less likely you would spot an issue.

These shots taken on one tour around the moorings. And this was on a lake. Even when they go walkabout, they can't go far.
The bottom two show that the strop has been cut and fallen out of the tube.

I'm was thinking of a bit of opaque rigid tubing loose over the shroud, perhaps capped. For inspection one would slide it up the shroud. If installing once the mast was up it might be possible to fit a spirally cut piece of tubing without disconnecting the shroud. One sees this on powerline guys sometimes, where I suppose its to stop passing pedestrian punters puncturing themselves

Drinking water bottles might be an alternative or supplement, though they'd have to be painted. Maybe aluminium foil.

 

[Poignard]

A nicely tailored wraparound canvas sleeve with a Velcro closure would look tiddly.