Replacing standing rigging

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eddystone

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Welcome some views on this as I have 2 estimates, both for around £3500. Last renewed (allegedly) in June 2013.

Although I can't see anything wrong with it and hasn't been raced (well not seriously) my thinking is:

1. Last insurance renewal was conditional on acting on recommendations of the submitted survey.
2. One recommendation was to have separate rig survey, duly obtained, which says standing rigging should be changed after 10-12 years although no issues except the type of swaging was not good practice.
3. I could therefore leave as is hoping for the best. However if any part of it failed under stress likely to be situation where being single/short handed I wouldn't be quick enough to take mitigating steps to rescue the mast.
4. Losing the rigging and the mast and with likely other damage/consequences would be significant multiples of £3500 and insurer (GJW) wouldn't pay up because of 1&2.
5. Therefore risk analysis says get it renewed before 12 years is up

?
 
I would definitely renew at 10 years. Not worth the risk. If you are reasonably handy, as most yachties are, it is a very straightforward job to do it yourself. Obviously, get a proper company to measure and make up the parts, using good branded fittings like Sta-lock. I did mine last year, forestay, backstay and all shrouds and it cost £1200 in parts.
Last time I used a rigger, he connected up the roller reefing foil but omitted to connect the forestay inside. Could've lost the the mast if I hadn't spotted it before launch.
I lost respect for so called "professional experts" a very, very long time ago.
 
You have done as the insurance company suggested so you are ok for the present and a couple more years. Personally I am happy up to 15 years or so (regular inspection) , with the possible exception of forestays which are always dodgy under rolling furling gear.

I think you have probably decided to do it.

Provided you can get the mast down and up for a reasonable cost, you should be able to do it yourself for between 1/2 and 2/3 of the quotation. By DIY I mean taking the lengths of wire to the rigger to be made up and negotiating a good price.

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It's pretty straightforward as mentioned above.Im 1/3 through mine,did Fore and backstay last winter,doing caps this coming and will finish up with the lowers next winter.Peace of mind knowing it's regularly checked and renewed and also fits into winter boat budget over a few seasons along with everything else far easier than doing it as a oner
 
doug748 said:
You have done as the insurance company suggested so you are ok for the present and a couple more years. Personally I am happy up to 15 years or so (regular inspection) , with the possible exception of forestays which are always dodgy under rolling furling gear.

I think you have probably decided to do it.

Provided you can get the mast down and up for a reasonable cost, you should be able to do it yourself for between 1/2 and 2/3 of the quotation. By DIY I mean taking the lengths of wire to the rigger to be made up and negotiating a good price.

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And insist on having the old rigging returned so there us evidence if miss measure, if required.

Also replace toggles at top of mast for forestay and backstay.
 
eddystone said:
Welcome some views on this as I have 2 estimates, both for around £3500. Last renewed (allegedly) in June 2013.

Although I can't see anything wrong with it and hasn't been raced (well not seriously) my thinking is:

1. Last insurance renewal was conditional on acting on recommendations of the submitted survey.
2. One recommendation was to have separate rig survey, duly obtained, which says standing rigging should be changed after 10-12 years although no issues except the type of swaging was not good practice.
3. I could therefore leave as is hoping for the best. However if any part of it failed under stress likely to be situation where being single/short handed I wouldn't be quick enough to take mitigating steps to rescue the mast.
4. Losing the rigging and the mast and with likely other damage/consequences would be significant multiples of £3500 and insurer (GJW) wouldn't pay up because of 1&2.
5. Therefore risk analysis says get it renewed before 12 years is up

?
Click to expand...
A survey suggested my rigging should be changed, I had it checked by a rigger who said if it was his he wouldn't change it, nothing wrong with it. I didn't change it. It was 15 years old, but used little.
 
It like all things in Engineering (load and size) the life has a usage component and an environment component not necessarily a time component

IMHO insurance complainers are just trying to limit here possible lability for breakage of rigging and loss of the mast
 
eddystone said:
Welcome some views on this as I have 2 estimates, both for around £3500. Last renewed (allegedly) in June 2013.

Although I can't see anything wrong with it and hasn't been raced (well not seriously) my thinking is:

1. Last insurance renewal was conditional on acting on recommendations of the submitted survey.
2. One recommendation was to have separate rig survey, duly obtained, which says standing rigging should be changed after 10-12 years although no issues except the type of swaging was not good practice.
3. I could therefore leave as is hoping for the best. However if any part of it failed under stress likely to be situation where being single/short handed I wouldn't be quick enough to take mitigating steps to rescue the mast.
4. Losing the rigging and the mast and with likely other damage/consequences would be significant multiples of £3500 and insurer (GJW) wouldn't pay up because of 1&2.
5. Therefore risk analysis says get it renewed before 12 years is up

?
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Ask GJW direct what their requirements are. They are most likely not the same as the surveyors (they weren't when I was in a similar position to you).
 
Based on everyone's thoughts, if you were looking at yachts for sale that had rigging aged >10 years it would need changing before insuring. Surely this would be a reason to make lower offer
 
You don't know the age of the rigging so I would renew.
Jimmy Green Marine have a good website where you could look at the cost of them supplying the rigging to your measurements and you fitting. I paid someone to re rig my boat as it only cost a tiny bit more than doing it myself.
Don't forget to include bottle screws, etc as they only have a limited life.
 
oakleyb said:
Based on everyone's thoughts, if you were looking at yachts for sale that had rigging aged >10 years it would need changing before insuring. Surely this would be a reason to make lower offer
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Not necessarily unless the seller said it was newer than that and turned out not to be after you had agreed the price. A boat is offered as described and the seller would have based the asking price on the description. Your offer would depend on what you think it is worth to you based on the description and your inspection.
 
I would go along with 15 year life for rigging wire. I am not so concerned about hardware part like bottle screws clevis pins etc. These are usually far greater strength (cross section) than the wire. I replaced my bottle screws after 30 years but have recently replaced the cap shroud and intermediate shrouds. 3/16 inch diameter 1x19 with swaged on top screw section in to bottle screw thimble at top. I removed the old wires delivered them to chandler and picked them up a few days later. Cost around 250 squid for 4 wires. In my case I am not concerned about forestay as using hank on jibs the load when sailing is taken by jib halyard. Back stay is dyneema /spectra. Perhaps I should replace forestay now 30 years old but only concern is failure while moored and mast should fall straight back. ie not break.
I did a few years back have a failure of bottom threaded section in to cap shroud bottle screw. (toggle section) I realised that I had at some point slightly bent the thread when raising mast and exacerbated by thread being screwed almost right in so making bend tight. Cyclic loads when sailing fatigued the screw section at the bend. Ironically happened 2 years after I replaced bottle screws and toggles due to concern re age. Fortunately manged to tack immediately so took load off mast bend and returned to mooring. (a few hundred metres away) It does give you a fright to see mast unstayed. Plenty of wind and had a reef in main. (went home and got an old toggle, fitted it and still made race start. (the madness) ol'will
 
I would , and did, take the opportunity of taking the mast down. Simplicity itself then to take the old wires , get them replaced like for like and replace them yourself. Gives you the chance to check all the other bits and replace / refurbish as needed. No need for a rigger if it's all lying on the ground
 
oldbloke said:
I would , and did, take the opportunity of taking the mast down. Simplicity itself then to take the old wires , get them replaced like for like and replace them yourself. Gives you the chance to check all the other bits and replace / refurbish as needed. No need for a rigger if it's all lying on the ground
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In fact, you should be able to replace the rigging without taking the mast down unless other work is needed as you can just remove half of the rigging get then replaced replace the do the second half.

You could also stabilize the mast, if necessary, with spare halyards
 
If you want insurance, you pretty much have to do it. In practice, a well set-up, correctly tensioned rig will last a lot longer than 10 years. When I bought Jazzcat, she still had her original rig from 1984, and I could see no faults. However, as a professional coward, I had it changed before I put the sails up.
 
£6k in Greece! Rubbish insurance surveyor (I will post his name and many errors when I escape) intimated hairline cracks in terminals but would not say which. On boat now and cannot see anything. Replacement tomorrow.

I am not one to replace at 10 or 15 years. You are bringing potential errors into the system and using gear which may not be as good as older stuff (e.g. wire,). Just keep an eye on it.

The 'James Bond' telescope failed because of newer additions, not the original rigging.
 
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