Replacing standing rigging

[Bathdave]

I've decided that I should probably bite the bullet and replace my standing rigging this season, which dates from 2002

I'm aware of previous discussions about the 10 year rule that some insurers follow ...I have had rigging inspected, and everyone who knows the boat says it's overrigged anyway..

I have concluded that I'm going to have to do it sooner or later, I doubt I will own the boat in another sixteen years so I might as well have the peace of mind of doing it now rather than try and squeeze another year or two out.

I have had two quotes, both pretty much the same amount,

One will do it in a day, with mast in situ.

One wants one to two weeks, and will remove mast ...and says doing it in a day with mast in situ is more costly

The one day option will I think be more convenient on a number of fronts.

What does the panel think ...should it be cheaper to crane the mast out and back than replace all in one day?

There is no burning masthead maintenance needed where I could have advantage in having mast down, though I would take advantage of it I think

 

[lpdsn]

Interestingly, with nine year old rigging, I discussed it with the insurance company and they weren't insistent on a ten year rule, but suggested I replace it in stages over the next few years with the caps first priority (forestay is just a couple of years old).

Regarding your replacement it seems a no brainer. One is willing to do a much quicker job for the same price. Lifting the mast out has no extra benefit to you. What are your doubts? I presume you have some if you've posted. Different specs? Reputation of the rigger?

Certainly I'm surprised that the mast out one would need more than a day. What's he waiting on?

 

[Tranona]

Almost certainly the one day job is more expensive because the rigger's insurer (and probably the yard) will insist on two people.

Personally I would take the mast out. I assume that it has not been out since 2002 for a complete inspection of all fittings and electrics. Would not be happy just changing rigging and not inspecting and replacing if necessary any doubtful fittings. Also take the opportunity to clean and polish mast, replace coax in particular and convert masthead to LED. Will be 2 weeks well spent and you will feel much happier that your rig is in tip top condition.

 

[mainsail1]

I had this conversation with a rigger a couple of weeks ago.
Last time I had the rigging replaced they completed the job in a day with the mast up. The rigger I spoke to recently said they could do the work in a day but they always insisted that they are allowed to drop the mast as they believe a proper inspection of the mast and fittings cannot be done when the mast is still in situ. I have to say he convinced me. I watched last time the work was done and they just replaced the rigging as quickly as they could...... it cannot be fun dangling 50 feet up.
I am not sure why it has to take your guy one to two weeks but this rigger says it can all be done in a day if they find no problems when the mast is out.

 

[capnsensible]

Ive replaced the rigging on three boats. Its easy. Mast up, drop one wire at a time. Ive assissted the rigger and been up each mast for at least two of the wires so I know how the terminations work.

Not fond of heights but I do a masthead check on my yachts every year. Replacing electic wire or halyards is easy too with the mast up.

I would for sure use the guy who can do it in a day. Put a new forestay and repaired furler on Monday. Four hours.

:encouragement:

 

[capnsensible]

Replaced all the bottlescrews at the same time as the wires too.

 

[dom]

My first question would be whether a detailed rig inspection has been carried out in advance of the rig-replacement quotes?

If no, then I'd certainly drop the mast and perform a close inspection as Tranona suggested -- terminations, spreaders, the mast and especially the spreader roots. If for example doubler plates are required the mast will def have to be dropped.at a later stage.

If a detailed inspection has, however, been carried out; I'd still drop if last drop was more than 5-8 years ago, but some will disagree.

 

[Resolution]

I'm for the drop the mast route, per Tranoma's advice. Always useful to be able to inspect it all closely, and depending on the mast, to have a good squint inside.
My extra suggestion would be to photograph all the masthead details and keep on your phone / Ipad. Later on when something goes wrong up there you can refer back and see exactly how all the sheaves, terminals etc should be.

 

[RAP77]

Just had my rigging & bottle screws replaced mast out first time since 2001.
the inspection of the mast revealed some corrosion and cracked fittings and the VHF aerial needed replacing including the co-ax cable.
It gave me a chance to clean and paint the mast step (keel stepped) and revamp the wiring connections.

 

[doris]

Seems crazy me not to have the mast out and all fittings, sheaves etc seriously checked. If this is a once in 15 years job, do it properly. There will be bits of wear, corrosion that wont get fixed with the mast in.

When I had mine done last year all the chain plate beddings were redone as well.

 

[capnsensible]

I seriously check my masts and fittings every year. And every yacht before a delivery. I dont take the masts down to do it.

Its not a space shuttle!

 

[Slowtack]

I found that a dismasting changes your attitude to risk!

 

[choppy]

Last time we replaced on own boat -and always well worth inspecting each year - Unstepped mast removed everything then sent to jimmy green asked them to replace according to pattern. All worked out at £80 / year over 10 years not a huge amount for peace of mind and insurance happy for next decade.

 

[jwilson]

I don't think many insurers actually have a "ten year rule". What usually happens is that a surveyor writes something along the lines of ".... if standing rigging cannot be proved to be under 10 years old I recommend it be replaced". Then the insurers offer cover "...warranted that all surveyors recommendations are carried out".

 

[Bathdave]

Thanks for contributions so far ...I can see attraction of having the mast down for an inspection and maintenance

I perhaps should have clarified that I will be bringing the boat from jersey to the Uk for this, and looking to combine it with a visit for a rally and then a cruise around West Country before heading back to Jersey ...so having the boat decommissioned for a while would cause me to rethink my plan.

I can see the benefits of having mast off, part of what I was trying to get clear is whether a rigging change with mast in situ was more complicated/ expensive than dropping it....that feels counter intuitive to me,

Also, am I likely to get the components significantly cheaper from Jimmy Green than relying on the rigger to supply exactly what he needs

 

[pvb]

I perhaps should have clarified that I will be bringing the boat from jersey to the Uk for this, and looking to combine it with a visit for a rally and then a cruise around West Country before heading back to Jersey ...so having the boat decommissioned for a while would cause me to rethink my plan.

If you're reasonably confident that the mast is in good condition, and the rigger can check a lot of it whilst doing the job, then replacing the rigging quickly with the mast in situ would suit your plan much better. The only thing I'd check is whether the rigger is planning to use Stalock type terminations rather than measuring each piece accurately and having fittings properly swaged on. To my mind, swaged fittings are rather more elegant.

 

[peteK]

I would get more than 2 estimates,how come the prices are the same ,I would have thought doing it in one day with the mast up would have been a lot cheaper than not having to use a crane twice .

 

[jwilson]

in late 2016 I had three quotes for standing rigging replacement: two riggers were going to do it mast-up (one afloat before liftout next to crane, one ashore), other one mast craned out ashore. The 3 quotes were within 2% of each other. I chose the mast-out option as it let me go over every inch of the mast and it's fittings to clean ( with a toothbrush ! ), really thorougly clean out the mast slot, check and then replace masthead light, etc. This was with standing rigging 12 years old from new, except forestay already replaced.

Every year the rigging had been checked from bosuns chair, but I felt 12 years of fairly regular sailing was about right. Insurers were not saying anything. This is a 35 ft Jeanneau with fixed prebend on 15/16 rig.

On some boats I'd have been happy with 20 year old rigging: eg. column masts and heavier wires pro-rata for sail area.

 

[dom]

I can see the benefits of having mast off, part of what I was trying to get clear is whether a rigging change with mast in situ was more complicated/ expensive than dropping it....that feels counter intuitive to me,

Also, am I likely to get the components significantly cheaper from Jimmy Green than relying on the rigger to supply exactly what he needs

Re the first question: it really depends on the complexity of the rig; how many spreaders, continuous or discontinuous, etc.

Re the second: riggers typically quote for the entire job inc any profit they make on selling the goods. Going labour only and giving JG the profit on the goods wld represent, both a change in terms, and a potential complication. Personally I wouldn't give a job to a rigger who I didn't wholly trust, which is why, again personally, I only use riggers with contracts for X-ocean racing boats. The flip side is that once I trust them, I just let them get on with it.

Edit: BTW don't forget to have the deck fittings also changed. Many ins cos. have clauses which deduct c.30% if equipment >10Yrs old. So make sure anything over that age is hanging plant pots in your garden

 

[ip485]

AS is often the case it depends.

When I had my standing rigging replaced it was done in situ. Probably more because I imagined taking the mast down would be quite a big operation.

Recently I had some work done that required the mast to come down. The yard dealt with the lift really well and in hindsight I may well have had it lifted again for rigging. With the mast down it becomes a good opportunity to attend to everything and anything else. Top sheeves can be difficult or impossible to service in place, it is a good time to inspect all the other components and inevitably this is easier to do with the mast down, and of course a good opportunity to replace lights with LEDS if required - again possible with the mast up but potentially much easier with it down.