Replacing old Stowe Dataline Instruments

[ritchyp]

Hi Members,

My fairly recently purchased 1992 36' foot Feeling has four dataline instruments mounted side by side just above the hatch above the companion way.
I sailed her for the 2nd time last weekend (The first when we sailed her from Ipswich To Southampton at the beginning of February.)

I noticed the wind speed not working but the wind angle did. Looking up to the top of the mast, its was clear that the anemometer was seized but the wind vane was still working. Reading the manual, it says there is a lubrication nipple that needs oiling once a year. I suspect that hasn't been done for several years.
The log worked but the readings were clearly wrong and now it doesn't work at al because the paddle wheel is probably choked up with river weed.

The depth gauge has always worked intermittently, showing the depth below the keel and the clearance required in the bottom right hand corner. When it is working it is accurate but it is quite often flashing numbers which oddly enough equates to the depth in feet so I wasn't particularly worried about it until we clearly touched some soft mud with the keel, just as we were tacking. I had been watching the depth like a hawk and the instrument was flashing 14.07 so 14 feet, we should have been ok with a draught of 1.8m . So now the depth sounder is not No bueno to! The instrument on the far right of the row displays the GPS and you can put waypoints into it. I'm sure they are linked as to turn the backlights on it has to be done on this instrument. I don't use it but it does give out an annoying continuous tone if you dont press navigation and the GPS Coordinates appear. I read that they are linked to a control module which sends or receives Nmea 0183 data.

mounted at the chart table I have an old Garmin colour chart plotter and the blue chart card has 2005 on it. There is also a DSC VHF radio linked to a class B AIS transceiver.
Mounted above the Binnacle is a Raymarine E90W Chartplotter/MFD that has its own built in GPS but doesn't appear to be linked to anything, not even the the EV1, AC100 & P70S autopilot and head unit. Whilst repositioning the EV1 compass sensor which was out by 40 degrees because whoever installed it broke one of the 4 clips that holds it together and keeps the sensor unit with the arrow pointing towards the bow. there was a spare Seatalk-ng socket on the end of the 4 way Bus connector so I will connect that to the E90W so I at least have the two Raymarine instruments networked.

I also have wireless capabilities as there is a Digital Yacht Long range access point ad an iNavconect wireless router connected to it and the E90W has a Seatalk-hs socket on the back (Just a waterproof RJ45 cable really.....) So I have options! Go all wireless or be prepared to do a lot of wiring.

I have a little technical knowledge and I have a enough skills, if I had more knowledge on the subject, to sort it all out myself. There wasn't a lot of money left in the kitty to be spending thousands on this and I forgot to mention, I want to add a radar scanner. She has an active dual band radar transponder, which I managed to get working again due to neglect and corrosion.

It all boils down to funds essentially. The price people are asking for old dataline units is crazy and I suspect that the head units are ok anyway but it is the transponders and stuck paddle wheels and anemometers that are the culprits. I've been reading threads on this subject but then i saw that those threads were from years ago. I still think "Buy New" is the best solution because I'll spend hundreds on getting this old system working again but the technology is early 90s and Im sure for a few hundred more. I could have wind angle/speed, Log and depth & sea temp all up and running. It would be nice to have the 110mm square units working as repeaters but also have all that data on the MFD which is just young enough to have all that data and radar, AIS depth and tidal direction on the screen.

My main issue that I need to address is the depth sounder and a new wind speed and angle system (which i can send to the auto pilot as its in wind vane mode - Virtual) If I buy new transponders, will they work on existing wires? If not, I have to go wireless. Just those 3 instruments working wirellessly will be about 300 quid for each. Its such a minefield and there are so many products out there. I could remove the depth transponder and get very wet by giving it a clean in case it was painted over with antifoul paint or buy a cheap Nasa Clipper transponder and head unit which might fit if I have enough room in depth behind but its completely standalone (3 wires) no interconnectivity.

I have been typing for over an hour now and spent all day trawling through forums to get some inspiration but I've run out of ideas that are within my budget so I am asking for some pointers and advice and maybe something I hadn't considered.

Thank you if you are still reading this because I have gone on but I needed to explain what I have and what needs replacing to give you guys as much information as possible.


The best of regards

Ritchy

 

[Supertramp]

My 1989 boat had the same issue, compounded by a duplicate instrument set at the inside helm.

You can make the system as is work. You can get the anenometer overhauled (£165) or do it yourself. I picked up old displays and used two to replace two of mine (£40 each). The display failing or wiring connectors to the rear failing were my faults. The boat's wiring for the instruments remains OK. I cleaned my paddle wheel carefully and it works accurately now. My echosounder always worked, and is painted over - I think it might be inside the hull but never messed with it so far. Having two sets made it even more important to avoid replacement.

But the key for you might be the desire to integrate and I suspect going new will make that easier. Plus a reliable echosounder is probably the most important instrument to trust. I can understand the desire to link wind vane to autopilot but for me I am happy to have separate systems. My AIS has its own display and will share via cable or WiFi with the plotter but I am happy keeping it standalone. If I wanted to integrate I would choose WiFi over cables so I could use a tablet or laptop while below.

Not a full answer but food for thought I hope.

 

[penfold]

Given the wind speed is seized it may revive with new bearings if you can get it apart nondestructively; no idea what arrangement the Stowe sensor has but they are generally not very complicated.

 

[Boathook]

I seem to remember that the oil nipple on the unit also holds anemometer in place. Remove the nipple and gently pull the anemometer out. The oil to be used was sewing machine oil and not much either.
I replaced my stowe dataline quite a few years ago as repairs were getting expensive and second hand units didn't seem any better than mine that were failing.
I had the option of wireless on my new stuff but went 'wired' as there seemed at the time to many problems with the wireless losing connection, etc.

 

[ritchyp]

Can anybody tell me where I can source and purchase a new set of bearings for my Stowe Dataline anemometer?

Many Thanks

Ritchy

 

[rogerthebodger]

take the bearings out and take then to your local bearing supplier

 

[Supertramp]

A+T instruments, Lymington will supply bearings and parts but are expensive.

This guy offers a service on ebay.


Read this post as well. I think I read something else about it on YBW and decided it was too fiddly for me. Note the oil hole comment which didn't work on mine as the bearings had disintegrated.


A+T did mine several years ago.

 

[penfold]

They will be standard bearings; measure the old ones and new replacements will be found online for not much money.

 

[kacecar]

I used "Nick the Engineer" having found his listing on eBay (look for "Stowe wind instruments" or similar). He needs your old unit to start and does what he can to return an "as new" instrument. I think he will soon let you know if it is going to be difficult (expensive) or can't be done at all. He seems to have done a good job on my stuff - it now works OK.

That said, on reflection, my decision to repair the old but high-quality Stowe devices rather than bite the bullet and replace them with much newer technology might not have been the right one. A lot of people seem to want integrated tech these days and are willing to pay quite a bit for it, so it must be useful. . . . but I still haven't got very much of it!

 

[ritchyp]

Sounds like like throwing good money after bad! thanks for the info somebody mentioned a refurbishment service earlier in the thread.

Im going to buy a complete new system, Clipper do a wireless system - Head unit, solar charging battery powered anemometer that can run for 80 days in the dark when the battery is fully charged. 110mm Square Instrument display which sends the data over Nmea and most likely will connect to the Dataline box using the same wires But my depth is is swapping between metres and feet (but flashing) I thought it was kaput but when it changes from metres (not flashing ) to feet and it is the correct depth but in feet (but flashing??) something's not right! I'm thinking of replacing that too and retiring the old Stowe databox and getting both running on N2k and then syncing it it to my Raymarine e90w. As mentioned in 1st post I have an EV1 autopilot, AC100 and new P70S head unit. I saw a spare connection (blanking plug) on what I believe is a small Seatalk-ng network. A single Seatalk-ng cable will connect the autopilot to the Raymarine MFD and I have a digital Yacht wireless access point and iNavconnect router so with one of their boxes I can have the wind & depth & AIS on the MFD via the Seatalk -HS port on the back of the MFD.

More than one way to skin a cat. MY main priorities are to having a new working wind speed and angle instrument and a depth sounder that does doesn't flash the depth in feet. The flashing value does exactly equal the same depth in meters but there is a momentary loss of display and that caused my keel to touch the bottom last weekend so its got to be fixed or replaced.

I just dont see the point in spending all that money to refurbish a 30 or 40 year old unit when for a little more you can have a completely brand new mast head unit and display.

R

 

[KompetentKrew]

From your first comment, I thought funds were an issue. I agree that it's not worth messing around with ancient technology, but it's big money to fully commit to a new system.

In my opinion if you're techy and you want good electronics then the answer is N2K. A friend of mine disagrees - he interfaces NMEA 0183 electronics with RaspberryPis and ethernet. But, since you have an EV1 you probably want N2K.

What I would do in your position is replace the masthead unit with an LCJ Capteurs CV7 and WindyPlug - the latter is LCJ's NMEA 0187 to NMEA 2000 convertor for the CV7, and it includes a barometer. Then I would add a Raymarine i70 for your wind display.

Now you have an NMEA 2000 network running from mast to helm, but that's close to £1500 right there.

I was unable to get a depth sensor on my new NMEA 2000 network for less than about £300 or so. A second Raymarine i70 to display it on is another £550.

SeaTalkNG is just NMEA 2000 with a funny connector, so your EV1 and P70 will join the network. I think really you want STW speed so that the EV1 can properly identify true vs apparent wind. Not 100% sure about this - it's deffo not essential.

 

[trialframe]

Anyone here used the Autonnic Research wind sensor? I just fitted one to replace a seized Furuno sensor. They seem very well made and excellent value for money. Native output is nmea 0183, but they can also do nmea 2000 as an extra.

 

[Boathook]

Anyone here used the Autonnic Research wind sensor? I just fitted one to replace a seized Furuno sensor. They seem very well made and excellent value for money. Native output is nmea 0183, but they can also do nmea 2000 as an extra.

I was wondering about their gyro compass to replace the Raymarine autopilot one. I would need to ring them up as every time I read up about it I got even more confused as to the type I would require, nmea 0183 or 2000 and then whether I would require a converter box to seatalk NG.

 

[fredrussell]

I was faced with exactly the same situation as OP when I bought my 1991 boat. It had a full suite of networked Stowe Dataline instruments, all of which worked partially, and none of which worked completely. I replaced them with a new Garmin plotter and Nasa Clipper depth, both of which have been excellent. I think the Clipper Depth is Nasa’s finest moment - nice big digits, good backlight and perfectly reliable. I just stuck the transducer to the hull with sikaflex and it’s always read well. The Garmin plotter has NMEA 0183 and 2000, a great user interface and hasn’t missed a beat. It can display data from a wind transducer should I wish to go down that route later on. Things have moved on a bit in marine electronics in the last 30 years - trying to get old and tired electronics to behave did not appeal much to me.

 

[Graham376]

Our old Stowe anemometer seized on one passage after prolonged 40+kts. Took it down and a few drops of sewing machine oil had it working again. Eventually display head packed up so replaced with NASA wireless unit, along with depth and log. Not bothered about integration.

 

[ritchyp]

Hi,
Yes Im back. Having just sailed the last couple of weekends. As you know My old NASA Clipper wind has a seized anemometer bearing so I'm getting no wind speed.
My roots go back to basics so I look at my flag if there is no apparent wind and that is purely because there is not enough wind on my face or a wet index finger and my boom is still and obviously at this point I have furled my head sale in. too.
I know that the wind direction is all over the place because the anemometer wind vane is perhaps catching a a tiny gust from time to time or the the boat pitching and rocking gently and a bit of self made breeze from moving under the engine.

Suddenly I feel some wind but not enough to loot at the flag or my semi working wind instrument. Naturally, I want to know how fast the wind so if it stays steady and from whichever angle, I can perhaps start to think of a strategy to negate the boredom of the sound of the engine.

Given that there is a growing list of jobs, repairs and updates that goes on and keeps increasing, I think the Nasa wireless Wind is great value at 315 GBP for the mast unit and instrument display unit and it fit right in the same space where the old one was. The wireless receiver receives NMEA 0183 and as I have a some digital yacht devices on board, Ill Buy an iKommunicate which converts up to 3 Nmea inputs and converts them to N2k and I can connect this to my Digital Yacht WL50 Wireless access point Yes Ill need a small Ethernet hub so I can also connect the Inavconnect wireless router to it as there is only one Etherenet port.

I'm going to stop with that side of things there. My depth gauge is still flashing between metres and feet but although its a strange fluke that I don't understand. Both depths appear to be accurate but never the less, I want that depth on my Raymarine E90w plotter. Im lifting her out for a scrub very soon so its the ideal time to fit a new depth transducer. There is a live wire down there from the old transducer so rather than pull the boat apart, Ill go for a wireless one I think I saw one that does depth and log but the boat has to be out of the water to fit it. it has a mini paddle wheel that is at the bottom of the unit but mostly protected so less likely to get clogged with weed.

110mm Square instrument displays all I can find is NASA, Which is analogue and not what I need or Raymarine, B&G and Garmin. Those instrument displays for example the Raymarine i60 are 550 GBP are there no instrument displays made by emerging marine Tech companies that are in the 300 GBP range or each display head? I dont re if they have Android or iOs apps that tell you 20 different parameters, That's just handy candy.

I just want to get all my my instruments that are currently at eye level directly mid ships above the compaionway hatch, Updated, new and totally accurate. I would love to get that date and an AIS overlay on my Raymarie MFD too and have real wind data fed to the EV1, AC100, P70S auto pilot too. At the moment the auto pilot is working as a stand alone unit and as soon as it starts blowing and the yacht heels, The auto pilot is useless we end going around in circle practically and you all know jhow dangerous that is with unexpected gybes and sails flogging "Horrible"

General advice welcome, everybody has an opinion but the cost of the instrument display heads is just dismaying. This is just the electrical Nav aids. There is money needed to be spent elsewhere too so Im trying to budget wisely to pay for the other things too.


TIA Richard

 

[fredrussell]

Have you looked at Onwa products? Very good value, and they now do the whole range of marine tech.

You can sail very effectively without a wind instrument, most do I would say. Is it absolutely essential for you?

 

[ritchyp]

Hi fredrussell, I looked at The Onwa products and they look good but they don't seem to make any Wind speed or Log & depth displays. That is what I need and I am looking for something 110mm square but not costing 550 GBP per display which Raymarine units cost. I'm looking for separate display heads in that Industry standard size. Each one showing Wind speed , depth and Log/STW but not at 550GBP each.

Thanks for the input though


Ritchy

 

[Daverw]

Have you looked at the airmar DST810 tri data blue tooth transducer? Good as standalone or 2K

 

[ritchyp]

Yeah... Daverw, I have been leaning that way for a while. That takes care of the depth & temp and Log. I have decided on a Nasa Tactical Wind wireless wind system. I can buy one one for 347 GBP and its the full wind package with Apparent & True wind displayed when connected to a LOG or GPS, the wireless receiver send out Nmea 0183 sentences but Im going to buy a box from Digital Yacht that converts that to N2K. The DST810 will also talk to the network.

Maybe a Garmin G20i display will work as a large visual repeater for depth and log/STW but I am not sure if they are digital or could they be used as displays anyway with the N2K data from the DST810 going to the Raymarine MFD by Seatalk ng and being fed to the autopilot to give it the True wind vane data which it really needs to work reliably.
If I'm correct about all this, The outlay with be 350GBP x 3 plus an iKommunicate - Universal NMEA Gateway. With Nmea to Seatalk-ng adapters Im looking at 2000GBP. I was hoping to keep the whole lot down to 1500GBP but I cant see a cheaper or better way and with the iKommunicate, I can also have the AIS on 0183 in the mix.

I might be wrong, there maybe things I have missed or that wont play nice. That's my current thinking and if anybody wants to comment on this being wrong. Id love to hear but as I understand things a little better each day, I believe this could work and save me pulling my boat apart by running cables down the mast and from the Triducer up to the cockpit

The radar scanner will have to wait a while.

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