Replacing an older battery charger

[superheat6k]

So I have had Billy Ruffian on her new mooring for 3 weeks. During that period the only item drawing shore power is the =battery charger which is floating the batteries, which consist of 3 ~130 AH lumps. There are no services left running and the bilge does not collect enough below the manual pump out collection pot to have the electric pumps cut in, so the current draw is minimal.

I have now used ~£10 over 3 weeks so ~ £3.50 per week. Assuming that I am being charged ~ 35p / KWH that is 10 KWH per week. This seems a bit excessive to me.

So the options I am looking at are ...

1 A new modern battery charger that will not cook the meter just to maintain a low background charge.

2 A solar panel for which I do have a decent space available on the raised cabin top at the foredeck.

Budget for each option and suggestions for the kit I need to consider please. The three batteries are set up in two banks.

As a third option I am considering a voltage sensitive relay on the charger supply so it doesn't sit there charging at minimal rate whilst wasting energy through its internal transformer.

Thanks.

 

[Croftie]

Sounds high, my electric is similar price, Dropped in at beginning of May over the last 10 weeks have used 55 units so under £2 / week. Victron 20amp 3 output looking after 2 x starter, 4 x house 1 x gen batteries all 120ahr. Fridge on over this period as well as limited usage of kettle, microwave etc when vissiting.. So either you have a very inefficient charger, batteries knackered (mine are a couple of years old) and demanding a lot of charging or the marina meter is off kilter.............

 

[PaulRainbow]

For just the domestic bank: Victron Energy Blue Smart IP22 Charger 12V 30A 1 Output UK - BPC123047022

If you want to do the engine batteries too: Victron Energy Blue Smart IP22 Charger 12V 30A 3 Outputs UK - BPC123048022

Configure and monitor from a phone or tablet. Very smart, will go to sleep if nothing much going in/out of the batteries.

 

[vas]

Trev, I think everyone should have a DC Amp meter (does AC as well, simply normal clamp meters don't often do DC as well!)
check the ac current going into the charger, and the DC going to the batteries.
Maybe a battery is slightly dead and the old charger is trying it's best to charge something that doesn't hold charge (and messing the other batteries in the process?)

 

[Momac]

In my case the charger departed after leaving a similar electricity bill.
Another vote for the Victron Bluesmart with three outputs which was a lot lighter and smaller than the outgoing charger.
Its using 2 to 3p per day to maintain the batteries given everything is off on the boat.

But as said don't discount the possibility of a failing battery.

 

[Croftie]

As a follow up, I made up my own useage checker using one of these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07R6NBZ9T/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Couple of sub leads one connects shore power cable plug coming into boat >> UK 3 pin socket and another with a UK 3 pin plug >> plug into boat power inlet socket (hope that makes sense) Much cheaper than a "Metermaid" then you can see consumption/actual cost of any appliance.

 

[Daydream believer]

For just the domestic bank: Victron Energy Blue Smart IP22 Charger 12V 30A 1 Output UK - BPC123047022

If you want to do the engine batteries too: Victron Energy Blue Smart IP22 Charger 12V 30A 3 Outputs UK - BPC123048022

Configure and monitor from a phone or tablet. Very smart, will go to sleep if nothing much going in/out of the batteries.

I have victron charger that you show above & the fact that I have to use my Ipad ( cannot see the small carp on my Iphone)to adjust it, is an absoslute pain in the butt. Waiting to get bluetooth connection then f..ting about with it is stupid. Why on earth does it not just have a couple of buttons on the charger. Seems daft to me to introduce more units to work it. It is not totally intuitive either.I still have not worked out what setting it should be charging at & why sometimes it charges at 12.5 V for a while when the batteries are already at 12.5 V then gradually increases to 14+ V. It does not have a setting for AGM batteries in spite of the advertised blurb.
I spoke to the dealer & I seem to recall that the 3 connection version is not required for a simple domestic /starter set up. I suggest that the OP speaks to a Victron dealer & gets a wiring diag before going down the 3 stage charger route. I seem to recall that it is easy to pickle the starter battery

 

[Momac]

I have victron charger that you show above & the fact that I have to use my Ipad ( cannot see the small carp on my Iphone)to adjust it, is an absoslute pain in the butt. Waiting to get bluetooth connection then f..ting about with it is stupid. Why on earth does it not just have a couple of buttons on the charger. Seems daft to me to introduce more units to work it. It is not totally intuitive either.............

The Blusmart charger I have was bought a year ago.
It does have a button on the charger to set it appropriately for the battery type but using the app is very easy if a little limited in range. There is no need to alter it after that.
Sounds like you may have an old model ?

 

[PaulRainbow]

I have victron charger that you show above & the fact that I have to use my Ipad ( cannot see the small carp on my Iphone)to adjust it, is an absoslute pain in the butt. Waiting to get bluetooth connection then f..ting about with it is stupid. Why on earth does it not just have a couple of buttons on the charger. Seems daft to me to introduce more units to work it. It is not totally intuitive either.I still have not worked out what setting it should be charging at & why sometimes it charges at 12.5 V for a while when the batteries are already at 12.5 V then gradually increases to 14+ V. It does not have a setting for AGM batteries in spite of the advertised blurb.
I spoke to the dealer & I seem to recall that the 3 connection version is not required for a simple domestic /starter set up. I suggest that the OP speaks to a Victron dealer & gets a wiring diag before going down the 3 stage charger route. I seem to recall that it is easy to pickle the starter battery

All you need to do is to set the voltages for your batteries and that's it as far as settings go. If you enable "expert mode" you can set the voltages to whatever you want. One reason it does not have a few buttons is that such a method would restrict setting to a few presets, rather than an infinite selection of voltages etc. Another reason for Bluetooth on Victron units is that they can be networked together.

Nothing wrong with having the three outlet unit if it fits the overall installation, i've fitted dozens of them and never had a problem.

 

[V1701]

I live aboard full time and am only using £2/week at the moment running a smallish mains fridge, kettle, slow cooker, microwave, TV, laptop, etc. and working from home two days per week so there's definitely something awry - way more than a relatively small parasitic draw and assuming there isn't a problem with the meter. So if your batteries are ok (you can test this) that leaves the charger. I have a Sterling 3 output charger similar to that linked to by Paul R for 3 x 110AH domestics & separate outputs for engine start & bow thruster and would choose something similar if I needed to replace it.
I think whether to have some solar as well as a charger is kind of a separate question...

 

[Daydream believer]

All you need to do is to set the voltages for your batteries and that's it as far as settings go. If you enable "expert mode" you can set the voltages to whatever you want. One reason it does not have a few buttons is that such a method would restrict setting to a few presets, rather than an infinite selection of voltages etc. Another reason for Bluetooth on Victron units is that they can be networked together.

Nothing wrong with having the three outlet unit if it fits the overall installation, i've fitted dozens of them and never had a problem.

Only 2 voltage settings as far as I can see.

 

[KompetentKrew]

Is there no way to put the existing charger on a timer so it only comes on an hour or two a day when the boat is unattended?

I would rather spend the money on a SmartShunt to monitor the boat's DC consumption / usage than buy a new charger unnecessarily.

 

[Daydream believer]

Timer

 

[Refueler]

Is there no way to put the existing charger on a timer so it only comes on an hour or two a day when the boat is unattended?

I would rather spend the money on a SmartShunt to monitor the boat's DC consumption / usage than buy a new charger unnecessarily.

Thats what I did till I got some trickle auto maintainers ....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194512219039

Simple ... less than a tenner a unit ... they shut off when battery full .. restart trickle charge when battery drops a bit ...

I now have a number of them maintaining all sorts of gear at my place.

 

[Tranona]

Do you have a battery monitor that shows where all that flow is going? that sounds an awful lot if the batteries are good and fully charged. Suggests a duff battery or a drain rather than any problem with the charger. The charger will only run if there is a demand on it.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Only 2 voltage settings as far as I can see.

That's correct, Absorption and Float. Set those to whatever your batteries need and you are done, no need to change them again unless you change your batteries for different technology ones.

 

[Boater Sam]

I do hope its not electrolytic corrosion.

Most likely the meter is robbing you.

 

[Daydream believer]

That's correct, Absorption and Float. Set those to whatever your batteries need and you are done, no need to change them again unless you change your batteries for different technology ones.

No I cannot see how to set those . That is a product of the battery software surely. I have to set a voltage for lead acid, or another sort of battery- forget type, lipo or something -certainly not AGM-Then the battery charger does its own thing. But knowing which to set it to is a guess. I do not want to overcharge . At the start it sometimes is charging at 12.5 V into a battery that already has 12.5 v. Then it gradually goes up to about 13.3 V . but looking at the graph on the blue tooth does not tell me anything of note. I never know if the batteries are charged or not as the NASA BM1 is not really a good indicator. I will show 13 V when shore power disconnected then- as one might expect- the voltage drops to 12.8. But VERY quickly drops to 12.7 when little power ( Instruments & autopilot only) is used. The NASA monitor shows charge quickly dropping to 60% suggesting that they were never fully charged in the first place. 2 new 100 amp agm batteries April this year. When I start the engine charge is quite high for some time ( longer than after charging with my old Dolphin shore power charger) and voltage circa 14.4 V

 

[WoodyP]

I often wonder why a charger is left on if there is nothing left on to draw current from the battery. A good battery maintains a charge for a long time before it needs a boost.

 

[vas]

No I cannot see how to set those . That is a product of the battery software surely. I have to set a voltage for lead acid, or another sort of battery- forget type, lipo or something -certainly not AGM-Then the battery charger does its own thing. But knowing which to set it to is a guess. I do not want to overcharge . At the start it sometimes is charging at 12.5 V into a battery that already has 12.5 v. Then it gradually goes up to about 13.3 V . but looking at the graph on the blue tooth does not tell me anything of note. I never know if the batteries are charged or not as the NASA BM1 is not really a good indicator. I will show 13 V when shore power disconnected then- as one might expect- the voltage drops to 12.8. But VERY quickly drops to 12.7 when little power ( Instruments & autopilot only) is used. The NASA monitor shows charge quickly dropping to 60% suggesting that they were never fully charged in the first place. 2 new 100 amp agm batteries April this year. When I start the engine charge is quite high for some time ( longer than after charging with my old Dolphin shore power charger) and voltage circa 14.4 V

as mentioned above, look for EXPERT mode, there you set the two voltages in 2decimal point accuracy.
Then you revisit after x years if you change batteries, never before, no point unless you want to have an offseason conservative mode and an in use mode.
and btw, how old are these batteries now?